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rhodges

Phooey on Blurries! One last Chance!

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I am not at the point of completely giving up, but am ready for a Sabbatical relative to FSX blurries. Surely, I am not alone.A few puzzle questions and/or clarifications:1. In http://dev.fsinsider.com/tips/Documents/Blurries-v3.pdf, on page 1 of 41 Phil Taylor states: "Today I want to talk about "Type 3" blurries. My main point here is that "Type 3 Blurries" are essentially an unsolvable problem."2. This really disturbs me because in my case, if this were correct, FSX is unuseable (which I don't believe YET). Surely I am not reading this entirely right as Phil has also assured us in many posts that MS is aware of the problem, and is working feversishly to try and find a solution. (Thanks Phil and MS!!!)3. As additional evidence against what I am seeing, many have proclaimed that they didn't have blurries before SP1 or something else, have found multiple solutions, or have never seen blurries.4. My screenshots attached are the result of slewing the default Baron to approximately the same location at a speed of about 170 knots just off of the deck. YES, I know someone has already told me, NEVER use the slew mode for such troubleshooting. However, the EXACT same display results in flight, or extremely worse. I have never stayed in the Slew mode long enough to totally duplicate what I see in flight. I do see it headed there though. For those that have never seen this, I am simply trying to give you a shot at what I am seeing. In the first shot, motion is paused so that textures can stabalize. Each degraded shot is after progressively longer flight.5. On some flights, by the time I reach my destination, virtually all textures are gone, even 3/4 of the runway I am landing on in one case was not visable directly in front of the aircraft.6. I have tried about all the tweaks and modifications that have worked for some as testified by forum posts. My suspicion is that some combination thereof may be the solution, but to find that combination is somewhat of a turkeyshoot IMHO and the odds are against me with that method.(However, the search goes on!)Note the progression of texture loss in the attached screenshots. As mentioned in my opening statement, I am ready for a Sabbatical and going back to FS9 for some fun. However, I will be religiously reading everything I can find on this forum, Phil's blog, and any where else I can find for new things to try that might be a solution for the FSX blurries.For what it is worth:Respectfully:RTHEdit: Sorry about attachment #2. It is the same as attachment #3 but in "txt" format instead of "jpg". I couldn't find a way to delete itASUS P5N-E-SLI MotherboardIntel E6600 Core2 Duo CPUZalman CNPS7700-CU RT CPU Fam4 GB KST DII800 MemoryWinXP ProNVIDIA VCG8800GTX 768MB Primary Video Graphics Card21

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In a couple of cases i had experienced really bad blurries - the sim was definitely not working like it should. This is what happened. I was flying a 747 from KSEA to Everett - I have done this on many occasions in fsx. The sim loaded with nice crisp ground textures and then when traveling the textures slowly and surely got worse and worse and they would not update for the life of god. It got so bad that even the autrogen wouldn't load any longer- even after I had stopped. It seemed something got stuck with the sim - what it was i don't know. When i restart my computer the problem almost always goes away. On almost all other occasions with fsx the sim does a really nice job loading ground textures and autrogen - Im usually very impressed. My thinking is perhaps it is related to some software/ process running on the computer that causes the CPU to not work like it should. I have no add-ons to the sim, my computer is healthy - no viruses according to AOL security center and LavaSoft. I don't know if this is what your experiencing but this is my experince. I have the sim locked at 20 FPS and it usually stays that way the whole time. Settings: No traffic, no Water settings, Clear skys, no bloom, everything else all the way up.My computer:AMD 3800 X2 Dual core3 GB RamGeforce 6100 graphics.

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Hello Joey:Thanks for the reply.Sounds pretty much like you saw what I am seeing. The faster the flight, the more pronounced it is, so a 747 flight would be more applicable than a slower bird.It varies a bit on my system as well, worse at times than others but is present to some extent pretty much on all flights, particularly concerning streets and roads. That is the first thing to degenerate.I have shut down everything else I can before beginning a flight and that doesn't seem to make any difference. Also done away with multiple monitors and just about everything else I can think of. I have even disconnected hardware and run with a minimum installation. Same results.With a flight paused, everything eventually catches up and looks sharp again, but unfortunately it doesn't last.I also am locked at 20 FPS just about all of the time (in FSX).Thanks again:RTH

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Ya - seems like you are experiencing what i experience except you experience it all the time. Now let me ask you something. When the sim is running normally on my computer the textures take about 5-10 secounds to fill in. Lets say you were in one location in SLEW mode and shot over to another location, it usually takes 5-10 secounds for the blurries to be gone. When the blurry problem is present (only once in a while for me and for unknown reasons) - it takes a lot longer- like 30 secound or longer. The textures don't seem to quickly update around you like they should. The good textures are stuck behind you and are slowly updateing. Is this what you are experiencing? Because it's hard to figure out if we are looking at the same problem. When the sim operates normally you should never be seeing extreamly blurried textured when in a 747 - the textures are always updating around you. If you are seeing extremely blurried textures for a long period of time then you are experiencing the problem and we and others should try to figure out whats causing it. Are you seeing extremely blurried textures when flying a 747?

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I haven't had blurries at all except when overloading my system (core2duo 6600, 4 gb ram, 7900 gs 256mb, smartclose to shut down most background apps and services). Last week I happened to be flying into Seattle in the 737 pic and nearing KSEA which is normally a stressful time for my system, I began losing texture resolution similar to the last several pics.The system wouldn't recover despite refreshing the graphics, turning down AI etc... Finally, I decided to alt Tab out of full screen mode and there was the culprit staring me in the face....an I-tunes update window was staring me in the face so I shut it down and went back to full screen mode and the texture detail went back to their crisp glory despite 12 fps.I'm wondering with the systems I see having this problem if some external factor isn't at play? For me, I-tunes and the the updater were not visible in the processes yet it started up anyway, (unless I missed it or smart close didn't catch it.I do hope the mystery is solved be it coding from MS or external factors being resolved. Ian.

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Hello again Joey:I would concede that a fast slew would initiate a delay in texture updates. My understanding is that this would be normal. However, I see a delay that grows with a slow slew, or flying at the same speed. My reaction is exactly the same whether in slew mode, or flying the plane at the same speed. The loss of textures is proportional to speed, but I will eventually see this with a J3 Cub @ 70 knots (which is a little fast for a J3.)Your 30 second delay may grow to be more than that if you wait longer when the problem is present, and you fly longer. The loss of textures usually grows with time. To see if this is present more often than you may realize, try flying just off the deck at 150-200 knots following a well displayed road. See if within time the road begins to be distorted or eventually disappears altogether. The results are pretty evident on my system within just a few seconds.I am seeing extremely blurrie textures no matter what I am flying, and with everything I fly. In fact, the only time I implement default MS aircraft is when troubleshooting as I am trying to eliminate every possibility (i.e. 3rd party aircraft problems).If you haven't yet, I would suggest that you take a peek at Phil Taylor's blog:http://blogs.msdn.com/ptaylor/default.aspxThen click on the article link "here" under "Focusing on the Blurries". You will have to scroll down quite a ways. My understanding is that Phil is discussing a combination of two types of blurries which I THINK is what we are seeing. Phil has also done his best to address the many posts folks like you and I have made, and I know he is snowed under with a problem that is not assigned to his desk. (Thanks loads Phil).Another place to see the hesitation in updating is by switching to "spot view". After a few minutes flying, it may seem like forever before the aircraft textures update. This happens with all aircraft, including those carried over from fS9 which had no problem there. (Yea I know, "This aint FS9). I also realize that this may be two different things (Scenery and aircraft textures), but I strongly suspect that the cause is closely related and possibly exactly the same.Again, with the flight paused, everything eventually catches up. Sometimes within a few seconds, at other times, you may as well go get a cup of coffee (or something else a bit more soothing, think I will do that right now).We shall see what we shall see.Respectfully:RTH

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It's funny you mention that I Tunes update because I remember seeing it aswell when FSX was acting up. That could be a culpret - but lucky enough its only a temporarly one. The real problem is for the people that have constant blurries. I too hope we see the mystery of the blurries get solved.

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Ya, I saw Phil's post a while back. It seems the blurry problem is a complicated one!!! There is obviously something that causes it - it could be a number of things, God only knows what it is (I feel sorry for Phil). And I hope there is a solution so some day you can play FSX like it is suppose to be played. It sucks because you have an above average rig and people with lower rigs are getting better qualitly.

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I had a few problems until out of curiosity, I triednot letting the application control the settings butspecifying maximum quality settings, in the NvidiaControl Panel.At the same time, I set unlimited frame rate.Had no trouble with anything since, all textures are good.Water effects max are good. Max weather.Fly only default 747, all views good, into big airports, no addons, one monitor.2 Core Duo Nvidia 8800GTS 4 gig ram Vista Home Premium FSX SP1Cheers,Peter Sydney Australia

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Okay, just wanted to update my situation. Recieved an XFX 8800 GTX 768mb from Dell today and took a couple test flights without blurries until....I had to move my aircraft off the fuel pumps and slewed to find a better parking spot. Well that certainly caused a problem after coming out of slew mode, blurries no matter what, full screen and windowed mode that I just couldn't get rid of. The only time I saw crisp textures was when maximizing the window and then restoring it again, and then only for a second or two.This was at seattle with fps running around 15-18, locked at 18. Strange thing is I ran FSX today prior to installing the 8800 and was using the 7900GS at Seattle and slewed around without causing the loss of texture resolution.Still more testing to be had as I've not flown a full flight with the 8800, but slew mode caused a problem or the act of slewing caused a loss of texture resolution which my system was not able to recover from and bring back sharp textures.Next I'll have to try and fly away from a busy area with the blurry textures and see if it recovers. If not then either it's a video driver issue, a video driver settings issue or an incompatibility between the 8800 and FSX.Now I have some reading to do and sympathize even more with those who have the blurry issue.Pre 8800 on a 7900GS, no blurry issues at all. Odd.Ian.

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Under XP i got the the best result with the 160.02 driver. Now under Vista i complain less with 165.01... 8800 GTX btw.Heiko

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Hi Ian:You may be on the right track. Could be a hardware issue, or some combination of hardware. I am sure it would be a good idea if everybody that posted this problem gave their full system specs and what drivers they were useing. Possibly then we might find that common denominator even if all of us would not choose to do anything about it ($$$$$).For example. Is anyone with an 8800GTX NOT having this problem? Is anyone with a 7900 having this problem?Unfortunately, if this turned out to be the solution, one would not be able to retain the 8800 even as a secondary video card as they take different NVIDIA drivers which tend to fight with each other.I tried the 160 series drivers which were recommended by another kind reply but was not able to get nhancer to work with them. (removal of shimmers). I thought that the documentation also recommended that they not be used with multiple monitors which negated them for me. I'll try them again though to see if the blurrie issue improves at all.The fact that entering the slew mode introduced the problem with your new card also makes one curious. My normal startup is at my home airport in the spot view. With low expectations I will try the default startup. To many this was an issue with FS9, but I did not know it existed for FSX.Thanks for the input.RTH

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Hello Heiko:Did you with XP, and/or Do you have any blurries now with Vista?In your opinion just realative to FSX, have you seen improvement worth the cost and hassle of upgrading to Vista?Thanks for the input.RTH

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This is a strange issue for sure. I tried the beta drivers on the nvidia site, 163 something, sparked up a flight from KSEA to CYVR.Frames were around 12-15 at KSEA, and I slewed across the airport again, slowly this time. Textures remained crisp so slewing isn't necessarily the problem, maybe a catalyst.About 5 minutes after starting the PIC737 I lost textures, the tails on the AI aircraft went blurry, the trees reverted to minimial texture resolution and parts of the VC became blurry. Oddly the main panel was blurry but the overhead and throttle quadrant were clear as a bell.An American Airline tail popped into crisp view during taxi and then everything popped in clear and crisp. Take off was bit blurry as textures tried to catch up but to me that's normal blurrines, then about 10 miles out to CYVR everything went blurry again and remained so until the taxi and parking. All at about 10-12 FPS. The 7900 GS just didn't do this, it's like the textures revert to lower levels whenever the 8800 gets stressed out whereas the 7900 GS would continue to process even if the FSP were below 10.System is a Dell XPS 400, 4 gb ram, nothing overclocked, Vista Home Premium, and of course the 8800 GTX.I have:full global resmax detail radiusTrilinearAntistropic, both App controlled, 1024X32 (also using nhancer) FSX Profile.100 mesh1m res2.x low waterLand Detail CheckedScenery at DenseAutogen at Sparse using Trees XAdvanced Anims checked onlyWeather, 90 % clouds, full 3d etc...Traffic set at 21 % airline 2 % GA, using mytraffic X, 5.1 versCars 12, boats 15, Leisure,10I'll have to try the default aircraft at KSEA and see what happens. Start with the ultra light and work my way up to the more complex aircraft and see where the breaking point is.I'm using the same settings as with the 7900 GS and yet that handled the stress well, albeit at low FPS at well in large city airports, so maybe it is some conflict or something whenever the graphics system gets overloaded. I would have expected 768mb to handle textures better than 256mb as far as staying visible. Maybe I'll uninstall the video drivers and re-install and play around with some of the settings, drop the AI a notch or 2 since that's a killer. I'm not used to having a top of the line video card, usually struggle on a poor mans budget so I'm going to get this to work if it kills me. :)Ian.

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Forgot to mention that I'm running Radar Contact, Ultimate Terrain, ASX and Cargo Pilot tracker. Again though, some slight blurring with the 7900, but not like the last of your screenshots, that only happens with the 8800.Ian.

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To add to the confusion-I am running all the above except Cargo Pilot on a 4 year old machine with Vista. Before sp1 never saw blurries. After the sp1 official release I started getting some. I also started getting crashes and finally a non recoverable activation error. I ended up having to reinstall my operating system and everything from scratch. After doing so now I have no blurries and no crashes...P3.2 ghz, nvidia 7600, 2048 ramhttp://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpgForum Moderatorhttp://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

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One thing I found to check is that in the Other settings section under the 3D settings in the CCC make sure the "Support DXT Textures" is checked. I never had blurries, but when I recently updated my drivers to 7.7 I started getting them. I was just abot to go back to 7.6, when I noticed that setting some how got unchecked. When I put it back on the blurries went away! Just something else to check!

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Well, to add a little more fuel to the fire.I just installed the newer 162.18 forceware drivers for the 8800GTX (XP 32bit).Two discoveries: 1. nhancer will not work. I tried this with what I believe was an earlier 160 series driver and got the same results so removed the driver and went back to the 158.22 drivers where nhancer worked flawlessly. I used this tool for my video card setup, particularly for the Negative LOD clamp which removed shimmering. I retained my 162.18 drivers, removed nhancer and used the nTune utility for setup.2. I have had the mipBias=6 entry in my fsx.cfg file in the hope that it would cure blurries as it seems to for some folks. I discovered with the new drivers that regardless of what I did, fences shimmered like nobodies business with this entry. I removed it and the shimmers were gone. I then replaced it and made the settin mipbias=4 and shimmers were gone again (much like the old FS9 settings). This makes me wonder if the negative clamp works with nTune.I like to imagine the blurries are a little bit better now, although I have not tested that theory enough to make it credible yet. Some are definitely still there, but possibly not quite so evident.Ironically, this is somewhat just the opposite of the recommendations for the earlier drivers. Next, I will play with nTune a bit, possibly remove the clamp and see what happens.The search goes on (and on, and on).RTHEdit: Went back into ntune and discovered that the negative clamp had returned to "allow". It will not hold the clamp. Seems that I have read this from others with the older drivers as well. nhancer seems to be a must for this implementation, but I can't get it to work with the newer drivers without an error message every time I make a change. (See my hardware post on nhancer questions). This pretty well tells us that there is nothing new with the exception that nhancer will not work with the 160 series drivers (at least on my system).

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With the 162.18 drivers, I do see improvement regarding blurries. Started a flight from KLWB to KORD in the Eaglesoft Citation CJ1 1.5, but gave up approaching KORD with everything maxed out due to low framerates.Just made a flight in the PMDG Express B1900D from KLWB to KCLT and textures behaved reasonably well. Not perfect, but were much more stable than they had been. Most noticable is that aircrft textures immediately responded throughout the flight when switched to spot view. Don't know yet whether this is just the bird in question, or a break through. Ground textures and roads were acceptable though some degeneration to roads (UT) took place, but still acceptable and equal to or a bit sharper than the UT roads in FS9. Now to see if this holds or hopefully improves some more, and a try with a faster bird on a longer flight particularly into high density locations with sliders reduced a bit.A few items that I do not completely understand:1. With the control panel setting provisions included with the drivers for Settings>Advanced>GeForce8800GTX, nothing is retained when settings are adjusted. It is useless. A second peek after trying to make settings will reveal that everything went back to default settings where just about everything is turned off. I know this was true for some individual settings in some past driver versions, but for the 162.18 near as I can tell it is true for everything.2. Nhancer will not work reliably with these drivers. Any adjustment to settings results in error messages. I have a post under the hardware link on this site regarding this.3. NTuner is the only utility I have found which allows setting adjustments. However, even with this utility, global settings will not hold and return to defaults exactly like the driver included control panel provisions. Profiles for FS9 and FSX hold, and I am ASSUMING that they are working. In any case, things look better.4. In the fsx.cfg file, the MipBias=6 edit is repeatedly removed automatically when ntuner is implemented as per step 3 above. I haven't figured out exactly what item does this or when it takes place. Some of the time it is retained for a while, then when I check back, it has been deleted without me doing anything. Even while this edit is still briefly present, shimmers on fences are terrible in spite of the clamp selection in the ntuner fsx profile. By adjusting it to MipBias=4, the shimmers go away as long as it briefly remains, and are also gone after it is removed which makes sense. In any case, again things are improved and I never really saw any difference with this edit which has improved the blurrie bit for some.Seems to me that this might be at least a hint that the blurrie bit is video card/driver related, and that hardware and/or FSX itself may not be the problem. However, with the variety of what we are reading, guess it could be a combination of things.Any input regarding the scenario sure would be appreciated.Respectfully:RTH

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Did some more flights over the weekend using the SF260, 737pic, ultralight etc....The ultralight and the SF260 performed at about 15-25 FPS flying around KSEA without a hint of blurries, unlike the PIC 737 which seems to overload my system and now crashes it: on a flight from KSEA to KSFO it crashed while nearing KSFO after the blurries hit, it frose and then CTD'd. Flying in less dense areas does not cause a problem, so I would have to agree this may be a driver issue coupled with overloading the system. The 7900GS seemed to handle the situation better for me without blurring and since different drivers were used for that card it could be more evidence of a driver issue.As far as nHancer, I'm using that as well and had a problem a few weeks ago after updating drivers for the 7900GS where I lost the list of defaults and the window came up a little strange, but after an un-re install it worked without a hitch. Using the 163.11 beta drivers and seems to work fine with those. Ian.

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Hello Ian:For other reasons (which may very well be related), I reformatted and started over.NHancer works fine so far with the latest drivers from NVIDIA after my reinstallation of video drivers and NHancer.I have not reinstalled FSX yet, but will do a step by step examination between stages which will take some time. If I find anything that I haven't read by others already that is noteworthy, I will include it in another reply.You might want want to take a peek at my post on the flightsim hardware forum relative to developements.I am very suspicious that it is a video card/driver issue relative to blurries, but time will tell.Thanks for the reply:RTH

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