Baron 58 Landing / Taxiing in Crosswind

[N9718 28]

Happy New Year, All!

I'm flying the MSFS Baron58 with dynamics mod, and when I try to land in a crosswind, the landing goes well until I hit the runway. Once I'm on the runway and trying to slow down (toe breaks), my rudder seems to no longer work and my plane heads straight into the wind like a weathervane and off into the grass I go. No matter how many times I've tried crosswind landings (15+knts), the same thing happens. It's like my rudder no longer works.

Also, when I use my toe breaks to slow down in the crosswind landing, my plane acts like its going to flip over so I release the brakes and I head off into the wind.

It's so strange. I'm hoping someone else has experienced this and can help me understand what's happening.

Thanks.

[LRBS 948]

Could it be a bad mod? Even with the stock configuration doesn't do that.

Is your rudder calibration ok?

Which mod is that? I can try and compare with what is going on and find a solution.

[Glenn Fitzpatrick 3,798]

Weathervaning into the wind once your wheels touch is realistic real world behaviour.  However you should be able to counter with opposite rudder.

[Pathfinder633 223]

What technique are you using?, are you crabbed on final or wing down-cross controlled?

Run through your approach and landing method

 

 

[snglecoil 1,828]

Does it happen with other planes in same conditions? If so, I’m guessing it is a control setting or calibration issue. If not, it’s probably a mod issue.

[sd_flyer 6,042]

13 hours ago, N9718 said:

Happy New Year, All!

I'm flying the MSFS Baron58 with dynamics mod, and when I try to land in a crosswind, the landing goes well until I hit the runway. Once I'm on the runway and trying to slow down (toe breaks), my rudder seems to no longer work and my plane heads straight into the wind like a weathervane and off into the grass I go. No matter how many times I've tried crosswind landings (15+knts), the same thing happens. It's like my rudder no longer works.

Also, when I use my toe breaks to slow down in the crosswind landing, my plane acts like its going to flip over so I release the brakes and I head off into the wind.

It's so strange. I'm hoping someone else has experienced this and can help me understand what's happening.

Thanks.

You should employ ailerons 

https://flighttrainingcenters.com/training-aids/private-pilot/pre-solo/wind-correction-during-taxi/

[N9718 28]

More details:

• I'm using this Baron58 mod: https://flightsim.to/file/41019/asobo-baron-g58-realism-mod
• When attempting crosswind landing: I use the crab method on final approach, and transition to the slip/wing-low method for touchdown.
• The only thing I haven't consistently done on landing is aileron deflection into the wind.
• I've checked my rudder sensitivity and operation (I'm using MFG Crosswind v3 pedals). They seem to operate normally.
• I've also experienced this issue while taxiing to/from the runway. If I get above a certain airspeed on the taxiway with a strong crosswind, my plane becomes less responsive to rudder steering and veers off the taxiway. If I slow down, rudder responsiveness returns.
• It almost seems like the rudder is not able to correct for the crosswind at higher taxi / landing speeds once I'm on the ground.

 

Edited December 28, 2022 by N9718

[N9718 28]

Just saw this in the mod comments section:

Quote

Tip of the Day: A new version (1.3.0) of this mod has been uploaded that will now allow takeoffs and landings to be performed with direct crosswinds of up to 20 knots. But, it's still not easy and requires good piloting skills and proper technique...

1) for crosswind takeoffs set the elevator trim to 0 degrees and apply a little down elevator until you rotate to keep the nosewheel firmly in contact with the runway to provide nosewheel steering until you become airborne. Also apply some ailerons toward the wind to keep the upwind wing from rising. Immediately after liftoff return the rudder and ailerons to neutral to crab into the wind and maintain your outbound runway track.

2) For crosswind landings, use Approach flaps only and maintain a final approach airspeed of at least 100 knots . This insures that the rudder will have sufficient authority to compensate for the crosswind.

3) A 20 knot crosswind will require a crab angle of about 16 degrees to maintain runway track alignment. Compare the HDG and TRACK shown on the G1000 to determine your actual crab angle. Full rudder and some upwind aileron will be required when you are ready to align the aircraft heading with the runway just before touchdown.

4) Use a minimum flare of only about 2 1/2 degrees to prevent your airspeed from dropping too much and losing rudder authority before touchdown.

5) After touchdown apply down elevator to keep the nosewheel firmly in contact with the runway to maintain nosewheel steering as you slow down.

6) Apply the upwind wheel brake first to begin slowing down after landing. Differential braking should be used in addition to the nosewheel steering to help maintain runway alignment during the roll out, especially at slower speeds when the rudder becomes much less effective.

Someone responded with a description of my issue:

Quote

That is enlightening, I was wondering yesterday (before this update) why my rudder didn't work after I landed with a rather strong crosswind. I went straight to the side even with full rudder applied. I'm guessing it was expected behavior?

 

So, it appears I need to push down on the yoke once I land / while I'm taxiing to make sure my nosewheel has contact with the runway / taxiway. I already use differential breaking.

Edited December 28, 2022 by N9718

[LRBS 948]

That mod is very good, I don't see any issues at all.

The only thing very important with  MFG Crosswind v3 pedals that I was facing myself was their calibration software and I use only windows calibration. IMHO works much better. And I would suggest the following settings in MSFS, the first 2 are for brakes and the third one is for the rudder.

 

https://i.postimg.cc/qqddrQkH/rudd.png

 

Also i would suggest the following modifications to the mod in flight_model config file to change:

 

[CONTACT_POINTS]

min_available_steering_angle_pct = 0.07   //0.2 ; Defines the percentage of steering which will always be available even above max_speed_decreasing_steering (in percent over 100).
 

[AERODYNAMICS]

//add these 2 lines

fuselage_rigidity       = -1

fuselage_inertia        = 0

 

[FLIGHT_TUNING]

 

pitch_stability = 1.4 /1            ;0.125

roll_stability = 1.2 /1       ;0.125

yaw_stability = 3.8 /1        ;0.125

pitch_gyro_stability = 6.0 /0.25

roll_gyro_stability = 2.0 /0.25

yaw_gyro_stability = 4.8 /0.25

engine_wash_on_roll = 0.5 /1 ; Torque effect

rudder_engine_wash_on_roll = 0.65 /1.4    ;2.66 ; Torque effect

 

//add these

ground_crosswind_effect_zero_speed=4.7

ground_crosswind_effect_max_speed=202.5

ground_high_speed_steeringwheel_static_friction_scalar=0.8

ground_high_speed_otherwheel_static_friction_scalar=1.3

 

[LRBS 948]

2 hours ago, N9718 said:

More details:

 

• I've also experienced this issue while taxiing to/from the runway. If I get above a certain airspeed on the taxiway with a strong crosswind, my plane becomes less responsive to rudder steering and veers off the taxiway. If I slow down, rudder responsiveness returns.
• It almost seems like the rudder is not able to correct for the crosswind at higher taxi / landing speeds once I'm on the ground.

 

Unfortunately, ASOBO strikes again this time not understanding how steering works.

You noticed (very few people noticed that problem) this particular issue where nose-wheel steering becomes less effective, actually, it happens as soon as you pass 7 KTS ground speed and where the turn radius is decreasing totally unrealistic, affecting the whole taxi experience.

There are airplanes that actually rudder doesn't have the capability to turn the nose wheel and require braking, others have rudder linkage that controls the nose-wheel (somewhere at 7 degrees left/right) during taxi, takeoff/landing roll regardless the ground speed, and others that have a combination of rudder and tiller (up to 75 degrees l/r) again regardless ground speed while the airplane is on the ground.

Usually (if not wet, snow or worn nose-wheel tires) we can exercise full rudder/tiller deflection to speeds of 10 KTS GS without any issues. After that, we can notice nose scrubbing, vibrations, etc.

Depending on the airplane, in general, if there is no contamination on taxiways or runways there is a transition at about 30 KTS where there is no need to control with the tiller (not in a BE58) and the rudder is effective.

It is for the sim community to request a proper fix for a correct functionality and a smooth transition during the acceleration/deceleration throughout the taxi, takeoff, and landing. 

[LouP 116]

Make sure that you have your rudder pedals linked to the axis for nose wheel steering.  I had the same issue but once I mapped the nose wheel steering, all was well.

LouP

[N9718 28]

7 hours ago, LRBS said:

Also i would suggest the following modifications to the mod in flight_model config file to change:

 

[CONTACT_POINTS]

min_available_steering_angle_pct = 0.07   //0.2 ; Defines the percentage of steering which will always be available even above max_speed_decreasing_steering (in percent over 100).
 

[AERODYNAMICS]

//add these 2 lines

fuselage_rigidity       = -1

fuselage_inertia        = 0

 

[FLIGHT_TUNING]

 

pitch_stability = 1.4 /1            ;0.125

roll_stability = 1.2 /1       ;0.125

yaw_stability = 3.8 /1        ;0.125

pitch_gyro_stability = 6.0 /0.25

roll_gyro_stability = 2.0 /0.25

yaw_gyro_stability = 4.8 /0.25

engine_wash_on_roll = 0.5 /1 ; Torque effect

rudder_engine_wash_on_roll = 0.65 /1.4    ;2.66 ; Torque effect

 

//add these

ground_crosswind_effect_zero_speed=4.7

ground_crosswind_effect_max_speed=202.5

ground_high_speed_steeringwheel_static_friction_scalar=0.8

ground_high_speed_otherwheel_static_friction_scalar=1.3

Thanks for these config recommendations. Would you be able to explain why you feel these additional modifications are necessary given the changes already made in the realism mod?

[LRBS 948]

35 minutes ago, N9718 said:

Thanks for these config recommendations. Would you be able to explain why you feel these additional modifications are necessary given the changes already made in the realism mod?

Many years ago, while I was in-between jobs, to stay current, I took a job delivering checks overnight and flew one of those. I found the need to adjust slightly this excellent mod based on my recollection of how I remember the airplane flew.

What those modifications do, you can find additional info in SDK.

Edited December 29, 2022 by LRBS

[snglecoil 1,828]

1 hour ago, LRBS said:

Many years ago, while I was in-between jobs, to stay current, I took a job delivering checks overnight and flew one of those. I found the need to adjust slightly this excellent mod based on my recollection of how I remember the airplane flew.

What those modifications do, you can find additional info in SDK.

Interesting. I did multi training in a Baron but have flown only about 20 hrs in them since. Did you find them to be particularly challenging in crosswinds? It’s a solid plane that didn’t seem to take much more than standard crosswind technique to behave predictably. 

I’ll have to give your tweaks a try. The Baron and the Bonanza are, in my opinion, the 2 best flying GA planes around. 

[N9718 28]

2 hours ago, LRBS said:

What those modifications do, you can find additional info in SDK.

Looking at the SDK, I noticed the following about fuselage_rigidity = -1 and fuselage_inertia = 0:

Quote

fuselage_rigidity = This parameter sets the rigidity of the fuselage. If set to -1 then the fuselage will be considered as having "infinite" rigidity, while values greater than 0 will mean that applied forces will affect the airframe. Default value = -1.

fuselage_inertia = This parameter sets the inertia for the fuselage, and works in harmony with the fuselage_rigidity parameter. However, if that parameter is less than or equal to zero, then this parameter will have no effect.

If I'm reading the SDK correctly, then the fuselage_rigidity setting you're recommending is the default value and the fuselage_inertia setting you're recommending has no effect.

I'll look into the other settings tomorrow.

Thanks again!