2 hours ago, mSparks said:

Loss of Control

Loss of control may result from many situations, such as: a control system failure (disconnected or jammed controls); severe wake turbulence, severe turbulence causing upset, severe airframe icing, or pilot disorientation caused by vertigo or panic.

If loss of control occurs, the CAPS should be activated immediately.

I mean I don’t think I could say it any better 🤷‍♂️

4 minutes ago, snglecoil said:

I mean I don’t think I could say it any better 🤷‍♂️

Are there not a best practices for not losing control of a perfectly flyable aircraft? I'd have thought that was the kind of basic training one must demonstrate before being given even the most basic of licences 🤷‍♂️

12 hours ago, flying_carpet said:

Ok, so ... thanks for the hints.

How do you reproduce this in MSFS?

Probably more a discussion for the MSFS forums no?  Thought this was about X-Planes strengths, why would you bring MSFS into it?  Actually, 1/2 of this thread is more about "MSFS Users" than the original post.  Funny that...

As for FAA approved, sure once you pair it with the appropriate Hardware. I left the Affirm link for you if you didn't have the $27,000 in your desk drawer... 

REALSIMGEAR - CIRRUS BATD

No reviews

The RealSimGear FAA Approved Cirrus BATD is a realistic, self contained flight simulation system for both home use and flight schools.

Regular price

$27,349

Monthly payments available with Affirm. Prequalify now

PRODUCT OVERVIEW

 

1 hour ago, psolk said:

once you pair it with the appropriate Hardware.

Cirrus Console Standard flight control package includes

Thrustmaster Side Stick (either TM1600 or Airbus TCA)

https://shop.thrustmaster.com/en_gb/tca-sidestick-airbus-edition.html

£59.99

Logitech Throttle

https://www.logitechg.com/en-us/products/flight/flight-simulator-throttle-quadrant.945-000032.html

$39.99

Logitech Rudder Pedals

https://www.logitechg.com/en-us/products/flight/flight-simulator-rudder-pedals.945-000024.html

$129.99

I make that about $200, not $27,000

 

10 minutes ago, mSparks said:

Cirrus Console Standard flight control package includes

Thrustmaster Side Stick (either TM1600 or Airbus TCA)

https://shop.thrustmaster.com/en_gb/tca-sidestick-airbus-edition.html

£59.99

Logitech Throttle

https://www.logitechg.com/en-us/products/flight/flight-simulator-throttle-quadrant.945-000032.html

$39.99

Logitech Rudder Pedals

https://www.logitechg.com/en-us/products/flight/flight-simulator-rudder-pedals.945-000024.html

$129.99

I make that about $200, not $27,000

 

For an FAA approved simulator?  Sure, let me know how that works out for you...  Go on, spin it so I didn't say "As for FAA approved"  with a direct response to the OP referring to XP as FAA Certified but leaving out that is only with an appropriate Hardware Pairing.  You know, details like that...  They start at $16,000 if you got to the FAA Approved section of their website

 

Edited January 3, 20233 yr by psolk

Just now, psolk said:

For an FAA approved simulator?  Sure, let me know how that works out for you...

That's what it says on your link.

And its $16k with all the other stuff, like PC, G1000 Suite 49" Ultra Wide Curved Monitor X-Plane 11 Professional Edition etc

 

5 minutes ago, mSparks said:

That's what it says on your link.

And its $16k with all the other stuff, like PC, G1000 Suite 49" Ultra Wide Curved Monitor X-Plane 11 Professional Edition etc

 

Oh, well  that makes up the $15,800 between that and the $200 you replied with.  

Show me where a $200 setup gets you FAA approval or certification with the link I shared...  Please.  While you're at it let me know how much these come out to for FAA Certified...  https://www.virtual-fly.com/shop/products/flight-simulators

Edited January 3, 20233 yr by psolk

5 minutes ago, psolk said:

that makes up the $15,800 between that and the $200 you replied with.  

Show me where a $200 setup gets you FAA approval or certification with the link I shared...  Please.  

You said "when paired with appropriate hardware".

I was just pointing out that the "control hardware" in that package is $200 - and with VR you don't really need the rest.... You would need to go through the BS FAA approval process however if you wanted to log hours - because they approve the whole package, So, for example, sticking a set of the $1,500 rudder pedals on your setup - even though they are used in a different FAA approved package, would make the setup not approved.

FAA approved just means - the exact setup - has one of these letters:

https://rsgpublicfiles.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/faa-setup/Signed+07-27-2021+RealSimGear+RSG-BG1%2C+RSG-CG1+and+RSG-CC1+BATD+Revision+LOA.pdf

And its that letter that costs most of the money.... not the hardware.

Edited January 3, 20233 yr by mSparks

1 minute ago, mSparks said:

You said "when paired with appropriate hardware".

I was just pointing out that the "control hardware" in that package is $200 - and with VR you don't really need the rest.... You would need to go through the BS FAA approval process however if you wanted to log hours - because they approve the whole package, So, for example, sticking a set of the $1,500 rudder pedals on your setup - even though they are used in a different FAA approved package, would make the setup not approved.

FAA approved just means - the exact setup - has one of these letters:

https://rsgpublicfiles.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/faa-setup/Signed+07-27-2021+RealSimGear+RSG-BG1%2C+RSG-CG1+and+RSG-CC1+BATD+Revision+LOA.pdf

No, when you don't selectively quote people to twist their words and backtrack your ridiculous argument what I said was: 

Quote

As for FAA approved, sure once you pair it with the appropriate Hardware

Meaning, to refer to XP as an FAA approved tool as the OP does for the failures he posted in his video you would also need FAA approved Hardware.  Full stop.  Are we clear there?  

But you keep spinning in circles because you have no idea how to accept you like to argue for the sake of argument despite being proven wrong so many times. 

Thank you, that's actually more than I even wanted to engage with you to begin with.  You can argue with yourself now.  

 

10 minutes ago, psolk said:

Meaning, to refer to XP as an FAA approved tool as the OP does for the failures he posted in his video you would also need FAA approved Hardware.  Full stop.  Are we clear there?  

Not clear at all. because:

1. "FAA Approved" don't mean jack outside of the US

2. "FAA Approved" just means a qualified FAA individual has confirmed the setup is suitable for training.

3. Its mostly not about the hardware at all, its the software and settings XP11 with a pro licence key, and RSGs version of the SR22

4. The failures in the OP video are exactly the same as those used in RSGs approved simulator, which starts at about $6,000 for the hardware (less than the PC I am writing this on) + $10,000 for putting it through the FAA process, of which about $200 of hardware, + XP11 + a decent PC is all you really need, and goes up to $17,000 for the fancy hardware + $10,000 for putting it through the FAA process.

5. I repeat

REALSIMGEAR - CIRRUS BATD

No reviews

The RealSimGear FAA Approved Cirrus BATD is a realistic, self contained flight simulation system for both home use and flight schools.

Regular price

$16,699.0

All Versions Include

• RealSimGear G1000 Suite with back lighting
• RealSimGear Cirrus Desktop Console or Cirrus Cockpit
• Cirrus Switch Panel
• RealSimGear GCU Perspective Stack or Perspective Plus FMS stack
• Flight Sim Spec PC
• 49" Ultra Wide Curved Monitor
• X-Plane 11 Professional Edition
• Choice of one aircraft model - Professional Edition SR20, SR22NA, or SR22TN Aircraft model (G3/G5 aircraft)
• Premium Support

Cirrus Console Standard flight control package includes

• Thrustmaster Side Stick (either TM1600 or Airbus TCA)
• Logitech Throttle
• Logitech Rudder Pedals

Edited January 3, 20233 yr by mSparks

Some comments from a senior test-pilot (Mr Campell) who interviewed the commander (Mr. Lionel Morrisson) of the first ever non-testflight Cirrus chute deploy, after a struggle with malfunctioning ailerons, and he actually re-gained control of the plane before using the chute;

Quote

Despite all my experience in flight test, I have to say that I’d be hard-pressed to do a better job than that done by Morrison… his thought processes were dead-on, his reasoning impeccable, and his ultimate decision to use the 'chute because he did not know if his current condition was to get worse is simply unimpeachable, in my opinion. I not only concur with how he seems to have handled himself, I strongly doubt I could have improved on his performance. [Listen, folks: if Campbell says this, you KNOW he's impressed --ed.]

Morrison was (obviously) VERY well trained, and possessed an excellent attitude toward his aircraft and the hazards he might have to deal with. I’m tremendously impressed with him

But why stop here.

Let's hear it from Dale Klapmeier, co-founder of Cirrus, talk about the Cirrus mindset for using CAPS 

Quote

we don't need heroes. We need people to be safe. So if there's a problem, grab the handle....

...With the simulator we can do anything we want. So we can actually put the pilot in a no-win scenario. The only option is to pull the parachute.....we had pilots, in the simulator, fight the airplane all the way to the ground.

So conclude this rather mind boggling debate. The best way to prevent Cirrus pilots from dying , is to teach them to pull early and pull often, or  as Avweb stated

Quote

Following the 2012 embrace of liberal CAPS doctrine with training that encouraged it to be considered as the first emergency response rather than the last resort, the Cirrus fatal accident rate dropped measurably.

Now, if some individuals here believe this is a "terrifying" approach or feel the need to "facepalm" when an instructor revealed how it's done in the real world (outside of Xplane), my guess is they don't put much value in human lives.
 

Edited January 4, 20233 yr by SAS443
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