13900KS + RTX4090 Build Notes

[Ray Proudfoot 9,038]

@Luke, I appreciate the help but this is an area I have no expertise and interest in. Having paid a healthy amount for a professionally built PC I shouldn’t have to change anything in the BIOS. I never did with my previous Chillblast which was fine up to when the new one arrived.

When this new one arrived it was noisy as soon as I turned it on. I discovered the AIO fan was set to Max. I turned it down to standard. Maybe that’s the reason.

What settings are suggested for the CPU fan in particular? I’ve increased it to Turbo and tried a quick test with the PMDG737, engines running, slewed to 7,000ft and moving at 320kts. I monitored the CPU temp and generally it stayed in the high 50s but when demands were made causing most of the VPs to run it briefly hit 90C but one second later had dropped to the 50s.

Clearly this fan is having an impact and I suspect me setting it to Standard was the cause of the high CPU temps.

What settings do user of this CPU / mobo use for fan control in the BIOS?

[jlohrenz 133]

Ray you may want to reach out to chillblast.  Usually with an AIO cooler the 'cpu fan' in the bios is actually the pump speed for the cooler, but it really depends on how they configured it for you.  Basically, for simming setup I have my pump for my AIO at its highest speed, and then ramp my radiator fans up accordingly based on the CPU temp.  I have a corsair setup in my case, so with their app I can have different profiles depending on what application is in the foreground.  As such I have it ramp everything up if p3d is running, and have it run on a more balanced / quiet mode when I'm just doing regular work or testing.

 

[Ray Proudfoot 9,038]

@jlohrenz, thanks for that. I’ll speak to Chillblast next week but it sounds like the AIO fan needs to be on its highest setting so Chillblast were correct when they shipped it with that setting.

If your Corsair has an app allowing you to switch profiles that sounds like something I need for my Fractal Design. Searching their website doesn’t reveal anything.

If the only control is via the BIOS that’s a bit of a pain.

LATER. I’ve just remembered I used AiSuite with my older Chillblast and whilst it could overclock the CPU its other feature was fan control. There was an app accessible bottom right of the screen to access it.

https://www.asus.com/support/FAQ/1012780/

Thoughts?

Edited December 1, 2023 by Ray Proudfoot
Additional info

[Bob Scott 7,745]

1 hour ago, mattius123 said:

@Bob Scott Hi Bob, I'm using the same CPU as you and I used Steve's AM recommendation for the 13900K in the P3d.cfg. I don't have the same sort of setup GPU wise (3080gtx) and I don't consider myself an expert in the Bios, I've left it on automatic and HT is left enabled. Can you advise what AM setting you are using in the cfg please as I'm registering 90 to 100 C temps when Im in flight.

Many thanks!

Specs: MSI MPG Z790 CARBON WIFI, 13900KS (Stock clock), DDR5 32GB 6000MHZ KINGSTON FURY RENEGADE, CORSAIR ICUE H150I, CORSAIR PSU 1000W RMX SHIFT SERIES RM1000X

On the 13900KS, I'm using an AM of 262143 to run P3D on 18 cores (with the remaining two active e-cores used for ancillary stuff).  To reduce heat I turned HT off and disabled one group/bank of four e-cores in the BIOS, so there are 20 active cores, each of which is also a VP.  I set the MainThreadScheduler value to force P3D to run the main thread on the one core I've independently clocked up to 6.0GHz.

@Ray Proudfoot I'm a bit sceptical that a 240mm AIO is enough cooling for the 13900K.  With a radiator that small, I'd expect the fans to be screaming with the machine under a typical flight sim load.  I've generally recommended a 360mm AIO as a minimum ever since the 10th-gen CPUs came out.  Also, 1.44v and 48 deg C at idle is pretty high--I see 1.34v and 27 deg on mine.  I have to wonder what your voltages look like under load...my gut feel is they're way high.  I highly recommend you get a copy of HWInfo64 (it's free) and watch your core VIDs under load.

@Luke  The PL1/PL2 TDP limits went away with the 12th-gen Intel CPUs.  There's a similar base power limit (125W) and a max turbo power limit (253W), and there's no longer a "tau" time limit at max TDP, and there's no hardware enforcement of those limits.  The problem I see with setting those limits PL1/PL2-style via the BIOS is that, like PL1/PL2, it's an all-or-nothing proposition--if the power exceeds the base power limit (up to the max TDP) for a specified period (formerly tau) then it gets throttled all the way back down to the base limit.  See https://pcper.com/2022/10/intel-core-i9-13900k-power-scaling-performance-explored/

[jlohrenz 133]

34 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

@jlohrenz, thanks for that. I’ll speak to Chillblast next week but it sounds like the AIO fan needs to be on its highest setting so Chillblast were correct when they shipped it with that setting.

If your Corsair has an app allowing you to switch profiles that sounds like something I need for my Fractal Design. Searching their website doesn’t reveal anything.

If the only control is via the BIOS that’s a bit of a pain.

LATER. I’ve just remembered I used AiSuite with my older Chillblast and whilst it could overclock the CPU its other feature was fan control. There was an app accessible bottom right of the screen to access it.

https://www.asus.com/support/FAQ/1012780/

Thoughts?

Yeah if all the fans are running off the motherboard something like that will do.

 

[jlohrenz 133]

@Bob Scott @Ray Proudfoot I'm wondering if your PC builder did some stock over clocking of some sort on your system.  Almost seems like the game mode boost or ai overclock is on which as Bob mentioned will do some stupid things with voltage to generate more heat

[Ray Proudfoot 9,038]

1 minute ago, jlohrenz said:

@Bob Scott @Ray Proudfoot I'm wondering if your PC builder did some stock over clocking of some sort on your system.  Almost seems like the game mode boost or ai overclock is on which as Bob mentioned will do some stupid things with voltage to generate more heat

The reason I stopped building my own PCs in 2018 was not just age. They were getting more and more complex so the logical solution was to pay a professional to build it for me. Chillblast have an excellent reputation and I know FS Labs people use them.

It's quite possible they do a stock overclocking and then set the fans to cope. Hence why one of them was on max irrespective of what application was running.

@Bob Scott, I can install that app but being able to understand and potentially change things is beyond my knowledge. My previous computer was fine with Ai Suite 2 installed. With v3 now available I'll install it and give it a shot. I remember @Pete Dowson recommending it some time ago.

The higher temps are probably related to the case size I chose. The larger CPU coolers would not fit in the space available. I suppose if you go for these ultra-fast CPUs you really need a full-size case but space prevents that.

[ttbq1 350]

16 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

The reason I stopped building my own PCs in 2018 was not just age. They were getting more and more complex so the logical solution was to pay a professional to build it for me. Chillblast have an excellent reputation and I know FS Labs people use them.

It's quite possible they do a stock overclocking and then set the fans to cope. Hence why one of them was on max irrespective of what application was running.

@Bob Scott, I can install that app but being able to understand and potentially change things is beyond my knowledge. My previous computer was fine with Ai Suite 2 installed. With v3 now available I'll install it and give it a shot. I remember @Pete Dowson recommending it some time ago.

The higher temps are probably related to the case size I chose. The larger CPU coolers would not fit in the space available. I suppose if you go for these ultra-fast CPUs you really need a full-size case but space prevents that.

Ray, what is your AIO model? if it is corsair you will need the Corsair ICUE app to control the PUMP and the FANS speed. it is important to set all the fans to MAX speed in your BIOS, in order for the ICEU app to have full control of the PUMP and FANS. I have my pump always running at 100% (recommended) and the fans depending on the load. it is important to monitor the liquid temperature and how fast the stream flows through the CPU to cool it down.

my 13900kf never reached more than 80C and only for a few seconds. I just did a BAQ-BOG 1 hour flight with the FSL321SL and the average temps were in the range of 48C to 52C. now, I have a 360mm NZXT Z73 but shouldn't be too much of a difference, and you should never reached 100% under AIO cooling with p3d.

[Ray Proudfoot 9,038]

HI Ramon. It's a Fractal Design Celsius+ S24 Prisma 240mm All-in-One Liquid CPU Cooler. I originally chose a Asus ROG 120mm one which wasn't available. Just as well really. I did ask about a larger cooler but it wouldn't fit in the space available.

I've gone into the BIOS this morning and have changed the QFan Control as follows:-

• CPU Fan is in PWM Mode and set to Turbo
• CHA1 Fan is in Auto Detect and set to Silent
• CHA2 Fan is same as CHA1.
• CHA3 Fan is in Auto Detect and set to Standard
• CHA4 Fan is same as CHA3 Fan.
• W_PUMP+ is in PWM Mode and set toTurbo.
• AIO Pump is in PWM Mode and set to Turbo.

On a flight in the PMDG737 I glanced at the CPU temp frequently and for the most part it was in the high 60s. When demand increased for loading scenery it jumped and hit the 70s, 80s and very occasionally the 90s. But crucially only for 1 second. On the next RTSS refresh it was back in the 60s. The GPU temp stays in the 50s.

I need a utility to monitor the temp and give me a rolling average which I think is more helpful than the peaks. The demand is so instant there's bound to be an increase in temp and no software can kick in prior to that demand and increase fan speed. All it can do is react to the current temp.

It doesn't look like there is a 3rd party utility I can use to control the fans. Just the BIOS settings. If you or anyone can suggest any improvements tot he above settings I'd be grateful but as things stand it looks to be doing a decent job with a CPU known to generate heat and P3D v5.4 which is placing more demands on the CPU than v5.3HF2.

[IanHarrison 526]

Ray,

My knowledge and system are far down the scale from where you are now but I use a program called FanControl which reads all the possible fans and offers different ways to control them. It is independant from the BIOS. Flat line, graph,  etc. all can be customised on the fly as well. It reads from a chosen heat source.

It can be downloaded from Github.com for free (and is safe).

[Ray Proudfoot 9,038]

Thanks Ian, I'll take a look.

I've just completed a 40min flight in the Vertx DA62 from Cheshire up to Carlisle near the Scotland border. I used the logging feature in HWInfo64 which saved it to a csv file. I removed all the other data bar CPU temp. Here's a plot of my temps with the settings further up in this topic.

Yes, the occasional jump of temp but I would say the cooling is doing a good job. With a more demanding aircraft there will undoubtedly be warmer temps none more so than Concorde.

Thoughts?

[Ray Proudfoot 9,038]

A 23 minute flight with the Vertx DA-62 over Australia resulted in this pie chart showing the count of instances when the CPU temp reached certain values.

That looks pretty good to me. You're always going to get peaks. Any were very short-lived showing the cooling is working well.

[IanHarrison 526]

That looks about in line with what I get with my Corsair liquid cooler. Although my base temperature is a bit higher than yours.

[Ray Proudfoot 9,038]

4 hours ago, IanHarrison said:

That looks about in line with what I get with my Corsair liquid cooler. Although my base temperature is a bit higher than yours.

The latest Intel CPUs run very hot. Hence the need for extreme cooling. That utility that Bob recommended is really useful for analysing performance providing you can import the results into a spreadsheet.

[Ray Proudfoot 9,038]

Here's an analysis of a 2h 10m flight in the PMDG737. Warmer temps but then it's a more complex aircraft. I see no concerns with this.