Any Pico 4 users here?

[Daube 365]

Hey Pico and Virtual Desktop users !

MBucchia posted some important news over on the official forums. He collaborated with the Virtual Desktop team and the result is a new version of Virtual Desktop specifically made for Occulus Quest and Pico headsets, to bypass SteamVR ! Works with MSFS, XPlane 12 and many other games.

You will essentially need to:

- download a new version of the Virtual Desktop APK to install it on your headset

- download a new version of the Virtual Desktop Streamer for your computer.

More info with download instructions here: https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/virtual-desktop-native-openxr-support-is-here/613733

Edited October 23, 2023 by Daube

[Donka 665]

Just to be clear, these downloads are only required if you want to access the beta. If you are happy to wait, it will come to the official release in due course.

[Rmmm 17]

Really a bit in shock at how fast my 2 year old desktop build has aged out.   VR has really leaped forward in that time.  

I am considering the PICO 4 as a first step transition into VR.   

MY QUESTION:  I am unsure if my current desktop machine can deliver an acceptable level of overall performance in VR.   Emphasis on "acceptable" for smooth display and level of detail.   My expectations are modest. 

FWIW - I will upgrade in a year or so to 15th Gen CPU and build a whole new machine.  

I have a very capable simulator with a YOKO yoke / Saitek Throttle Quadrant / Flap Switch / Trim Wheel etc.   Currently using a single 60" LED TV with TrackIR 5.   

I have a fair amount of remote training time with a CFI using Skype during the past COVID shutdown.   So I know the simulator very well.   The level of realism, accuracy and immersion is quite good.

PLATFORM - X-Plane 11 and X-Plane 12  //  Limited use of MSFS 2020
SCENARIO - Class D Airspace Only.   No dense airports or cities.  No Ground Vehicles.   No Air Traffic.
AIRCRAFT - Cessna 172 and Piper Comanche 
MISSION - Support for Real World Flight Training / Flight Fundamentals and Procedures / Navigation / X-Country flight

COMPUTER HARDWARE
ASUS TUF Gaming Z590-Plus 11th Gen //   ARCTIC Liquid Freezer II 360 AIO Water Cooler
G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series (Intel XMP) DDR4 RAM 64GB (2x32GB) 3600MT/s 
EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti XC3 Ultra Gaming, 12G
Samsung 970 EVO Plus SSD 2TB NVMe M.2
Corsair 850 Watt, 80+ Gold

Can I expect a reasonable experience with the PICO 4 ?
Thanks for your time and suggestions.

 

 

 

 

 

[Daube 365]

You didn't write your CPU type ? In any case, I'm using an old GTX 1070ti and I have to keep the resolution scale down to 80% to get acceptable FPS.

So with your RTX 3080 you should definitely get something acceptable, provided you take the time to configure your MSFS correctly and you install the proper OpenXR version of Virtual Desktop (to be bought from the PicoStore, within the headset). The default Pico software, to connect your headset to the PC, will give good enough results with MSFS but was not working well in XPlane12 (until at least a few versions ago, I haven't tried anymore recently...). I'm also getting slightly worse performance in XPlane12 compared to MSFS in VR.

Just keep in mind, in a VR headset the middle/far distance details won't be as clear as on a 2D monitor. What is close will be clear/crisp, but what is more far away will not.

[Rmmm 17]

Hello Daube..

Sorry.   The CPU detail was lost with an edit before posting.   It is the i7-11700K.

I own but don't use MSFS 2020 much at all.   I have X-Plane 11 and will upgrade to X-Plane 12.

Please add any additional thoughts with that added info.   Your reply is encouraging.  

Thanks.

COMPUTER HARDWARE
ASUS TUF Gaming Z590-Plus 11th Gen i7 11700K    //   ARCTIC Liquid Freezer II 360 AIO Water Cooler
G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series (Intel XMP) DDR4 RAM 64GB (2x32GB) 3600MT/s 
EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti XC3 Ultra Gaming, 12G
Samsung 970 EVO Plus SSD 2TB NVMe M.2
Corsair 850 Watt, 80+ Gold

Edited November 19, 2023 by Rmmm

[roland_lfor 253]

Very interesting thread.

I own a HP Reverb G2 since a while, is there any benefit to look at the Pico 4 in my situation?

Per eye resolution is equal, so is the different lens type is enough to expect a better clarity?

[Daube 365]

Clarity ? No.

It's the amount of pixels that make the "clarity" as defined in the VR world. The lenses will impact things such as the lighting, colors, sweet-spot etc... but two headsets with the same resolution per eye (EDIT: and the same FOV...) are likely to have the same clarity.

I would recommend a Pico 4 to a user that is hesitating with the G2, because it's cheaper and you don't need to buy a new cable every week. ( 😉 ). But for somebody who already have a G2, I don't think there much improvement in switching to the Pico 4. The pancake lenses of the pico are indeed very nice, but that's it.

 

Edited November 20, 2023 by Daube

[roland_lfor 253]

Thanks for your reply. Maybe the G2 cable issue will lead me to a jump at a time. But I would prefer to move to a model with eye tracking capability.

[Daube 365]

I agree with you that eye tracking might become an important feature in the near future.

However I cannot stand all of these headsets that are easilly going above the 1000$ price tag, (Especially those that require these infamous tracking cameras in addition). The Pico has a reasonnable price that gives it a very good quality/price ratio.The Quest 3 might actually be even better, but I just don't like Meta 🙂

[Rmmm 17]

Hello Roland...

I am considering the PICO 4 because my current desktop is not up to the task of the new and higher priced HMD's.   Alternatively, I may first go from a single 60" LED TV to a Triple 55" set up.   Of the two choices, the PICO 4 is the less expensive option by far. 

The HP Reverb G2 has been reviewed as the best middle price HMD for many years now.  But newer models are moving in.   Pancake lenses (Pico 4) and Aspheric lenses are becoming affordable.

Daube's comment about price vs feature/quality is fair.   Tech is, unfortunately, always about mission / use case and budget.  

 

[Daube 365]

Concerning your hesitation between triple screen and VR, I would give some small warning:

It depends on what kind of flights you are planning to perform.

 

Sounds stupid but it's important. Nothing beats VR when it comes to the view you actually get in the cockpit. There is NOTHING more immersive, not even a real cockpit. On your triple screens, you will still be looking at a 2D picture, whereas in VR you will see in true 3D, with depth perception... (and also you will see the actual cockpit around you, no matter which aircraft you chose. No more flying a Tomcat from your 737 real cockpit 🙂 ).

THAT BEING SAID the clarity of the picture will not be as nice as on 2D screens, and in case you plan to fly mostly liners, a VR headset might not bring that much improvements at all. It might even actually degrade a part of your experience, due to the lesser ease of use of your various tools and other controls in the cockpit.

If you are planning to fly various aircraft types, including smaller ones, open cockpits, helicopters, military jets etc.... then VR will beat out any 2D screen setup you might have, due to the view you get. Sure you'll get less distant details, but truth is, you won't really care about this.

[Rmmm 17]

Thanks.   I don't fly airliners or warbirds or fighter jets or helicopters.   No interest at all.  Some months back I was doing real world solo flights and the various maneuvers solo as well and also getting ready for my solo cross country.   But life intervened and I have taken a very long break from real world training.   I explained my use case earlier:
SCENARIO - Class D Airspace Only.   No dense airports or cities.  No Ground Vehicles.   No Air Traffic.
AIRCRAFT - Cessna 172 and Piper Comanche 
MISSION - Support for Real World Flight Training / Flight Fundamentals and Procedures / Navigation / X-Country flight    ===

What I have no experience with is VR.    I am trying to make some good use of my present, 11th Gen / Z590 machine and get an introduction to the VR experience first hand.   I am studying up on the PICO 4.   It looks like a good choice.   It won't be a super detailed scenery outside, but that is not needed as mentioned earlier.   Your view that I should be able to get "acceptable" performance is supported by other comments to various reviews.   

Thanks again for the guidance.

Edited November 21, 2023 by Rmmm

[Daube 365]

Ok I understand your use case now.

Honestly I might not recommend VR. My view about VR is that it's more a tool to improve the immersion for pleasure and fun. I'm not sure it would bring much to your experience which is more aimed at learning and serious practise. 😕 I'm afraid to recommend you something that might end up being useless or not enjoyable (-enough) to you...

[Donka 665]

53 minutes ago, Rmmm said:

Thanks.   I don't fly airliners or warbirds or fighter jets or helicopters.   No interest at all.  Some months back I was doing real world solo flights and the various maneuvers solo as well and also getting ready for my solo cross country.   But life intervened and I have taken a very long break from real world training.   I explained my use case earlier:
SCENARIO - Class D Airspace Only.   No dense airports or cities.  No Ground Vehicles.   No Air Traffic.
AIRCRAFT - Cessna 172 and Piper Comanche 
MISSION - Support for Real World Flight Training / Flight Fundamentals and Procedures / Navigation / X-Country flight    ===

What I have no experience with is VR.    I am trying to make some good use of my present, 11th Gen / Z590 machine and get an introduction to the VR experience first hand.   I am studying up on the PICO 4.   It looks like a good choice.   It won't be a super detailed scenery outside, but that is not needed as mentioned earlier.   Your view that I should be able to get "acceptable" performance is supported by other comments to various reviews.   

Thanks again for the guidance.

Purely on your machine and wanting to try out the Pico 4, I think that would be a good option. I got the Pico 4 when I had a RTX3090 and was surprised how good it was in all honesty. Your 3080Ti should have enough power to provide a good experience with the Pico 4. VR for now is still a bit of a trade off. It's not as clear/sharp as 2D but the immersion and sense of depth trumps that for me and I'm firmly a VR only flier now.

If you do go for a Pico 4, I would also get the Virtual Desktop app from their app store as that offers up more options to improve streaming than the free Streaming Assistant from Pico 4, but you could always try that first to see how you get on. Streaming Assistant will require the use of Steam VR application though, but if you use Virtual Desktop, you can run it without that as it has it's own VR runtime plugin (VXDR) available as an option so it may be worth going straight for Virtual Desktop. This method also gives a performance boost which is more beneficial for lower spec hardware (lower from a VR Perspective).

 

Some basic tips.

• Keep Pico 4 to 72Hz which is the default screen rate for the headset.
• Use Virtual Desktop with VXDR plug in and enable Super Space Warp (SSW) which is their version of motion reprojection - set it to always. Also try Godlike for the streaming quality.
• Install OpenXR Toolkit. This opens up a lot of options but to start with, just select Fixed Foveated Rendering using the Quality preset.
• In MSFS, under VR Graphic settings, use DLSS balanced instead of TAA mode

 

The above will hopefully get your frame rate above 36 FPS. What the SSW setting will do is cap your MSFS frames at 36 but generate 72 fps for your headset which will give a nice, smooth experience. You can also set the Pico 4 to 90Hz but you would then be targeting 45fps in MSFS to get the smoothness that SSW can provide - I would stick to 72Hz with a 3080Ti. There is a frame counter you can enable in Open XR Toolkit to check you are not dropping below 36fps. If you are dropping below this regularly, you can try dialing back some of your settings like DLSS Performance instead of balanced. You could also try changing Virtual Desktop streaming quality from Godlike to High or lower and enable the Snapdragon upscaling option (SSG) which is essentially an on headset equivalent to the likes of Nvidia DLSS.

Likewise, if you are maintaining a rock solid 36fps, you can try increasing some settings such as DLSS Quality preset or change from DLSS to TAA mode in MSFS.

Stick to the basics first and once you get good performance, then look to start improving the visuals such as playing with sharpening, increasing render resolution etc. Render resolution is the biggest factor to screen clarity but you will realistically need a stronger GPU to get much success using higher resolutions.

While I eventually went for a 4090 to push things further, I was impressed with what the combination of the 3090 and pico 4 could deliver.

[Rmmm 17]

Hello Donka..

Super helpful information.   Thanks for taking a lot of time for this.   I have been scouring all over for this kind of information. 

X-Plane is under represented.   Do you have any similar guidance for operating the PICO 4 with X-Plane 11 or 12 ?    

Most of my sim time is expected to be on that platform.   If you have additional guidance for X-Plane, I would be very appreciative.