Any Pico 4 users here?

[Donka]

I only use wireless via Virtual Desktop and I would guess this is the preferred way for many people provided you have a solid wifi connection. For something like MSFS, latency is less of an issue as responses are typically slow anyway and don't require ms timing like a fast paced, action shooter game.

[Daube]

Indeed, for MSFS the latency that you get from the USB connection is probably not a real issue.

I use only the USB tethering technique (USB-C to USB cable) because my Wifi routers at home are not Wifi6 compatible, and I don't want to replace them all. I understand the latency is better via Wifi than via USB, there were some discussions about this a few months ago. But I can leave with that, as I use my VR headset only for simulators anyways.

[Donka]

I use a Wifi 5 router supplied by my ISP and it works flawlessly with a solid 866Mbps connection - granted I'm only around 8m away with a good line of sight. Wifi6 is not a requirement, it's just recommended.

[roland_lfor]

My explaination was unclear, sorry. The idea is to connect directly the WiFi from Pico to computer to avoid crossing the router, thus reducing the overall WiFi latency.

[roland_lfor]

Also surprisingly for me the transmission rate seems to be lower using USB-c, compared to WiFi 5, roughly half.

Is it the same for you ?

Edited November 29, 2023 by roland_lfor

[Daube]

Yes, some expert user had analyzed this and reported that somehow, it's the decoding phase of the signal which is more time-expensive in USB than in Wifi. I'm not 100% of the details or if my summary is correct, but it was something like that.

[roland_lfor]

So it looks like a good WiFi 5 above 800mbs is better than a wired connection.

[odourboy]

I'm using a USB-C to ethernet adapter from a gigabit switch behind my PC as described in this video. Rock solid 1200mbs network performance with low latency (and continuous charging!).

 

Edited November 29, 2023 by odourboy

[AJZip2]

2 hours ago, odourboy said:

I'm using a USB-C to ethernet adapter from a gigabit switch behind my PC as described in this video. Rock solid 1200mbs network performance with low latency (and continuous charging!).

 

Yes - this is what I'm going to try next.  Good to hear that it's been successful for you, @odourboy  

There are many things I like about the Pico 4 but I just can't quite get it to my 'OK' Reverb level of stability and clarity doing it the way I'm doing at the moment.  Which is:

- Wifi 5 at around 550 - 800 Mbps using my ethernet-connected desktop as a Wifi hotspot

- Virtual Desktop

- Most of the permutations and combinations of settings in OpenXR toolkit/Virtual Desktop/nVidia/SteamVR/MSFS that I've come across here and in various 'trusted' Youtube videos

And out of shimmering/stuttering/sharpness, I can get any two out of the three of those equal to the Reverb, but not all three.  So at the moment I'm still using the Reverb for MSFS and the Pico for other stuff.  

But I can't help feeling that an even better wifi might just tip me into '3 out of 3'!

I'll try it and let you know if it makes the difference here too.

[Donka]

5 hours ago, AJZip said:

Yes - this is what I'm going to try next.  Good to hear that it's been successful for you, @odourboy  

There are many things I like about the Pico 4 but I just can't quite get it to my 'OK' Reverb level of stability and clarity doing it the way I'm doing at the moment.  Which is:

- Wifi 5 at around 550 - 800 Mbps using my ethernet-connected desktop as a Wifi hotspot

- Virtual Desktop

- Most of the permutations and combinations of settings in OpenXR toolkit/Virtual Desktop/nVidia/SteamVR/MSFS that I've come across here and in various 'trusted' Youtube videos

And out of shimmering/stuttering/sharpness, I can get any two out of the three of those equal to the Reverb, but not all three.  So at the moment I'm still using the Reverb for MSFS and the Pico for other stuff.  

But I can't help feeling that an even better wifi might just tip me into '3 out of 3'!

I'll try it and let you know if it makes the difference here too.

You've got some fairly robust PC specs there. Can I suggest just a few basic settings to try.

MSFS:

• TAA mode at 100% resolution
• Sharpness set to 0%

 

Virtual Desktop:

• Use VDXR - make sure SteamVR is not running at all.
• Godlike quality
• HEVC10
• Bitrate set to 150
• Sharpness at 70%
• SSW disabled (for now)
• Increase nominal video range (can't remember exact name but gives greater contrast)

 

OpenXR Toolkit:

• No sharpening initially (can be changed later to taste)
• Override resolution set to 3120x3120
• Fixed Foveated Rendering using Quality preset

 

See what kind of performance you can get with the above. From there, you can consider switching from TAA to DLSS Quality in MSFS or enabling SSW in Virtual Desktop if you are not getting acceptable performance. There is a lot more to 'tweak' but these are some of the basics for now. I recommend only applying one layer of sharpening in Virtual Desktop. The more sharpening you introduce, the more shimmering and other artefacts you will see, especially if you add it in both MSFS and OpenXR Toolkit as well. If you want to add additional sharpening, I would recommend only in Open XR Toolkit and avoiding in MSFS - like photography, sharpening is best being applied later in the process or preferably last - hence only using it in Virtual Desktop. The override resolution has the biggest impact on clarity, too much sharpening can make your image much worse.

Edited November 29, 2023 by Donka

[AJZip2]

37 minutes ago, Donka said:

You've got some fairly robust PC specs there. Can I suggest just a few basic settings to try.

MSFS:

• TAA mode at 100% resolution
• Sharpness set to 0%

 

Virtual Desktop:

• Use VXDR - make sure SteamVR is not running at all.
• Godlike quality
• HEVC10
• Bitrate set to 150
• Sharpness at 70%
• SSW disabled (for now)
• Increase nominal video range (can't remember exact name but gives greater contrast)

 

OpenXR Toolkit:

• No sharpening initially (can be changed later to taste)
• Override resolution set to 3120x3120
• Fixed Foveated Rendering using Quality preset

 

See what kind of performance you can get with the above. From there, you can consider switching from TAA to DLSS Quality in MSFS or enabling SSW in Virtual Desktop if you are not getting acceptable performance. There is a lot more to 'tweak' but these are some of the basics for now. I recommend only applying one layer of sharpening in Virtual Desktop. The more sharpening you introduce, the more shimmering and other artefacts you will see, especially if you add it in both MSFS and OpenXR Toolkit as well. If you want to add additional sharpening, I would recommend only in Open XR Toolkit and avoiding in MSFS - like photography, sharpening is best being applied later in the process or preferably last - hence only using it in Virtual Desktop. The override resolution has the biggest impact on clarity, too much sharpening can make your image much worse.

A number of the above I've got set - but there are some significant differences in other areas.  It'll be 24 hours before I can get back to it but I will certainly try the above and report back.  Many thanks.  🙂

[roland_lfor]

On 11/29/2023 at 3:21 PM, odourboy said:

I'm using a USB-C to ethernet adapter from a gigabit switch behind my PC as described in this video

Does it take the "USB Tethering" option on Pico side as with the standard USB connection?

How the IP is attributed? by Windows DHCP?

 

I'm unable to connect Virtual Desktop using:

• a direct Hotspot connection
• a USB tethering connection (yes I select "private network" option).

And classic WiFi through my router gives horrible results so I'm near to give up 

Any tips?

EDIT: figured out to establish usb to usb connection with VD

Edited November 30, 2023 by roland_lfor

[AJZip2]

On 11/29/2023 at 6:42 PM, Donka said:

You've got some fairly robust PC specs there. Can I suggest just a few basic settings to try.

MSFS:

• TAA mode at 100% resolution
• Sharpness set to 0%

 

Virtual Desktop:

• Use VDXR - make sure SteamVR is not running at all.
• Godlike quality
• HEVC10
• Bitrate set to 150
• Sharpness at 70%
• SSW disabled (for now)
• Increase nominal video range (can't remember exact name but gives greater contrast)

 

OpenXR Toolkit:

• No sharpening initially (can be changed later to taste)
• Override resolution set to 3120x3120
• Fixed Foveated Rendering using Quality preset

 

See what kind of performance you can get with the above. From there, you can consider switching from TAA to DLSS Quality in MSFS or enabling SSW in Virtual Desktop if you are not getting acceptable performance. There is a lot more to 'tweak' but these are some of the basics for now. I recommend only applying one layer of sharpening in Virtual Desktop. The more sharpening you introduce, the more shimmering and other artefacts you will see, especially if you add it in both MSFS and OpenXR Toolkit as well. If you want to add additional sharpening, I would recommend only in Open XR Toolkit and avoiding in MSFS - like photography, sharpening is best being applied later in the process or preferably last - hence only using it in Virtual Desktop. The override resolution has the biggest impact on clarity, too much sharpening can make your image much worse.

Well, this is remarkable.

I'm still experimenting while following the basic logic of what you say above, @Donka, but at first try, I have basically followed the above and now have a shimmerless, sharp and stutterless experience.  Just as smooth and very, very close to the clarity of the Reverb.

Gold star, smiley face and upvote duly awarded 🙂  Bravo!  

 

[Donka]

Good to hear. There are still lots to change but those were just a few key things to consider first.

[odourboy]

7 hours ago, roland_lfor said:

EDIT: figured out to establish usb to usb connection with VD

So you're good then?