currently I am using the Thrustmaster T16000M and now I want a smooth precise but heavier, more sturdy stick (not yoke) for general aviation (non fighter airplane) for MSFS. money aside, how do you rate the Thrustmaster F-16C Viper plus separate heavy base plate (not the F18 version) or HOTAS warthog without the throttles?

I meant this one:

https://eshop.thrustmaster.com/en_us/hotas-warthogtm.html

https://stormbirds.blog/2019/12/07/thrustmaster-goes-modular-with-hotas-magnetic-and-f-16-grip/

If I get the Hotas stick version, is it always modular so that you can remove the grip from the base stand and could later attach it to a VIRPIL base stand instead?

---

I understand it is made of metal instead of plastic and uses Hall sensors (like the T16000M) instead of the error prone potentiometers. it all sounds like a robust device, but I saw some users saying it might be too heavy, the springs too stiff. what would you recommend (money no object as long as it doesn't cost more than my RTX 4090 😊).

would the VKB and VIRPIL be even better than the Thrustmaster base plate?

your feedback is very welcome.

Edited April 28, 20233 yr by turbomax

No experience with HOTAS Warthog or Virpil (my last HOTAS was the X-55), but I got the Winwing Orion2 Max at Xmas time and I'm very happy with it. Something to consider anyway.

https://wwsimstore.com/view/goods-details.html?id=343

thanks very much, sounds interesting. you seem to be comfortable purchasing from China, I have never done that and have no idea how warranty is handled.

1) I also see no mention of so called Hall sensors instead of error prone potentiometers.

they seem to go directly against thrustmaster. if the overall build quality and feeling is great, I would be interested.

2) what made you get this instead of the market leader Thrustmaster?

3) do you use it for fighter aircraft or general aviation?

and btw: what's taking so long with you Pico ?

Edited April 30, 20233 yr by turbomax

4 minutes ago, turbomax said:

thanks very much, sounds interesting. you seem to be comfortable purchasing from China, I have never done that and have no idea how warranty is handled.

1) I also see no mention of so called Hall sensors instead of error prone potentiometers.

they seem to go directly against thrustmaster. if the overall build quality and feeling is great, I would be interested.

2) what made you get this instead of the market leader Thrustmaster?

3) do you use it for fighter aircraft or general aviation?

and btw: what's taking so long with you Pico ?

I buy from China routinely. Rarely had a problem. Warranty.. WinWing is apparently difficult to get warranty work from, but parts availability and support are reportedly good.

1) While their grips are reported as having a great quality feel, Warthog has taken knocks for their switches and wiring, and bases are mostly plastic and can wear out.  WinWing bases use metal cams and hall sensors are feel fantastic (as do Virpil according to everything I read).

2) Warthog has not kept up with the times. They were the best 10 years ago but rested on their laurels.. that was the basic gist of reviews. 

3) Both. I fly in DCS but more in MSFS. I do enjoy military, but I'm completely content flying tubeliners with a HOTAS. Not everyone is as tolerant as me. 😆 

I considered Virpil, Thrustmaster and WinWing... chose winwing for price/performance and I liked their configuration a touch better. 

My Pico... OMG. Ordered and canceled several times due to lack of fulfillment. I now have one en route with DHL from Amazon.de (like you suggested 7 weeks ago!) that should be here tomorrow or Tuesday.

will this be your first VR headset experience or did you have another one before?

thanks for the detailed reply and see you soon in VR land.

3 minutes ago, turbomax said:

will this be your first VR headset experience or did you have another one before?

thanks for the detailed reply and see you soon in VR land.

First. No idea what I'm doing. Lol!

4 hours ago, odourboy said:

First. No idea what I'm doing.

in case you wear glasses, need to be the far view lens type, not the reading glasses version:

https://vroptician.com/

 

8 hours ago, turbomax said:

in case you wear glasses, need to be the far view lens type, not the reading glasses version:

https://vroptician.com/

 

Distance vision is good. But thanks!

17 hours ago, odourboy said:

Warthog has taken knocks for their switches and wiring, and bases are mostly plastic and can wear out.

I just checked on the Amazon web site, it shows: all metal for Thrustmaster F-16C Viper AddOn (Joystick AddOn, for Hotas Warthog and Hotas Cougar:

• Realistic (1:1 scale) replica of the real F-16C Viper control stick.
• 100% made of metal with durable industrial materials for an authentic feel and maximum durability.
• A total of 19 action buttons plus an 8-way "point of view" head switch.
• Integration into the DCS game with the DCS: F-16C Viper module (game and module sold separately) and compatible with all other flight simulator games.
• Compatible with the base of three joysticks from Thrustmasters flight simulator ecosystem: HOTAS Cougar*, HOTAS Warthog and HOTAS Magnetic Base (all sold separately; * Button 19 is inactive on the HOTAS Cougar)

Like I said, I don't own one, but youtube reviewers indicated the internal cams and pivots (the mechanical bits that take the wear and tear of use) were plastic.  

https://youtu.be/w6LX4GMJIj4

thanks, that was a great video- and thanks to your introductory, I am now checking those out in more detail: and the plastic devil is inside where as an innocent beginner you don't see nor expect it with the Thrustmaster:

 

 

 

 

Edited May 2, 20233 yr by turbomax

the thrustmaster, while being most popular, is also the most "plastic inside" despite their "all metal" claim, which obviously refers o the grip and base plate only and as such is totally misleading. it seems to be the least one would want after seeing those reviews, thanks again for pointing that out to me because one would only find out the hard way after the Thrustmaster warranty has expired.

I've been using the Warthog HOTAS, both stick and throttle, for 3 years now. Zero problems. I love them. 

The friction knob on the throttle works very well. You can set both main levers to have as much drag as you wish. The Warthog throttle is 3 axis. Two are normally used for throttles. A third axis is a medium size wheel with protruding grip lever. I use that for zooming the view in cockpit view or outside view. It works oh so much better and nicer than zooming with the mouse. 

The stick has 4 hats. I would never settle for 3 hats or 2 on the stick.. I need at least 4. You can flip any of the hats on the stick with thumb or fingers while the same hand is still using the stick to fly. There's not a yoke in all the universe that allows so much control without using your hands (you only use your fingers). 

Yokes work for airliners because they have autopilots doing the work which frees the hands. In combat, autopilot won't dogfight for you so you need a stick. You don't need a stick for GA flying but in my opinion if you don't want to be tied to an AP but fly the plane yourself, then a stick beats a yoke by a mile. 

I haven't used Virpl nor VKB nor WinWing HOTAS. All three have excellent reputations. 

For rudders, I use VKB and won't even consider anything else. But they don't have toebrakes. I use the 2nd large lever on my Warthog throttle for anaogue brakes. Pushing that big stick forward engages both left and right brakes proportionately. This gives way better modulation than using your feet. I have 2 other levers on another controller that I use for engaging only left or right proportional brake. This works great for me because I seldom use just left or just right brake. And only on the ground in special situations with only some planes. And never when flying.

VKB rudders are all metal, are smaller than any other rudder. Have precise control. And are the rudder of choice for most people for helicopter flyers, because of that precise control. They cost les less than half of what a TM Pendular cost. Are more precise, rugged, and way smaller. And come standard with dampers. But like I said: no toe brakes. 

Edited May 3, 20233 yr by Fielder

Have used Thrustmaster, logitech, and many other controllers over the past 30 odd yrs.

Almost 2yrs ago I purchased a VKB Gladiator Premium joystick, & WinWing Orion Throttle quadrant.

Without any doubt the VKB stick has proven itself to be among the highest quality, robust, and ultimately configurable joysticks I've ever owned.  Everything else seems like a toy by comparison.
I mainly use both devices in DCS World.  But both equally at home with MSFS as well.  Microsofts upgrades in FS2020 make life programming any throttles, tough - the design of MS controller settings is, in my view diabiolically frustrating to say the least.  They should take a leaf out of the DCS products (could do a lot worse).

The software that goes with the VKB stick is highly complex, but it makes the stick highly customisable in a huge number of ways.  The fact that it has a 131page manual for its settings say a lot - its complex - and that may well be its only bad point, it confused the heck out of me!  But then I'm no programmer (even though I work in ICT).  But if you keep your requirements fairly simple it works very well.

The WinWing Orion I've also purchased has since been superceded by the Orion II (with paddle-like finger-lifts at the front).  Its a great piece of kit.  I had no issues whatsoever with buying online from China.  Its a little more clunky than the VKB product, but it works.  Mostly all-metal construction with good quality plastic in parts.  The software isn't too bad either.  Takes a bit to get things calibrated.  But a lot, and I mean a LOT of buttons, controllers and switches that you will spend hours configuring.

Highly recommend both - the word not allowed over most of the competition.  The only serious condenders to this would be Virpil - but they're much more expensive as well.

Edited May 7, 20233 yr by phreddy

Anybody in the UK wanting the Thrustmaster Warthog, check the Classified  ads for Rockliffe's offering.