discovery

[Randall 85]

Interesting discussion. I’m a new convert to VR. I also was not interested in actually getting one, though I was curious. 
 

It wasn’t until I tried it at the recent Flightsim Expo that I was convinced that I wanted it as part of my Flightsim experience. Subsequently, I built a new computer to replace my ancient one and bought a Reverb G2. I do not regret it. 
 

However,  it has not replaced my monitor and my many hardware controls. VR is amazing for immersion, but wearing the headset for even a short time gets rather warm and sweaty. Wintertime might work out better. While I can briefly look out of the VR using the headset front camera to see my controls to get my bearings on the switches and buttons (using “flashlight” mode), it breaks immersion. Trying to manipulate radios using mouse or controller in VR is an act of frustration. I didn’t want to do that even with a monitor which is why I have a radio and other instrument controller (M panel by VR Insight (ironically named company)). 
 

So, for short flights (pattern practice, for example), VR is incredible. I’m glad I can have the experience when I want and will probably use it more than I do now as time goes on. But, until they make the headsets a lot smaller and we have hand motion detection, VR  gets limited use.  My new computer and the current state of Xplane 12 makes my 34” Ultrawide, 3440x1440 resolution monitor and all my buttons and switches quite immersive for me, at least most of the time. 

[Pe11e 812]

3 hours ago, philmurfin said:

The human brain works many things however, my personal model of the human brain won't let me forget if I have a heavy uncomfortable alien device strapped to my head.

To be honest, I have felt quite claustrophobic when I've ever tried VR, they are certainly not for me I'm afraid, not even if they were giving them away.

I can appreciate what you get out of VR and I really hope they continue to evolve and give you even more pleasure  however, VR is not for everyone

 

I understand. It's the same for me when I used TrackIR.

Although, I don't get the "alien device" reference, at all. So the RW pilots wearing sunglasses, clunky headphones, or helmets in the case of military jets, are not in the same pond? FYI wearing a helmet is way more uncomfortable than wearing a VR headset. Also, for me, big clunky headphones are also way more uncomfortable than a VR headset alone, that is why I'm using earplugs.

And yes, with Bigscreen Beyond VR headset, "a heavy uncomfortable" is not in the talk anymore. 😉 And I believe, that is the path of VR in the near future, fingers crossed. I don't need wireless connectivity, or standalone operation, I just need great PCVR performance with a better FOV than Quest 2, in a smaller package.

Edited August 20, 2023 by Pe11e

[philmurfin 74]

Lets just agree to disagree and to not shout or cry about it.

Very Best .... Phil

[Pe11e 812]

23 minutes ago, philmurfin said:

Lets just agree to disagree and to not shout or cry about it.

Very Best .... Phil

Let's just agree to disagree is the easiest thing to say without any valid argument.

I'm just trying to say that the old generic one "big heavy alien device" is not valid anymore. That was the thing with the big Pimax headsets and generally the old design.

You probably felt claustrophobic in VR as it does show cockpit in 1:1 scale, or you just picked up nausea pretty fast. Or both. VR needs time to get used to, as TrackIR does too.

To finalize the discussion, I understand the reasons fully, it's just that your argument about big and heavy is not valid anymore. Technology progresses fast, but arguments stayed the same. 🙂

Edited August 20, 2023 by Pe11e

[MrBitstFlyer 3,918]

3 hours ago, Pe11e said:

I'm just trying to say that the old generic one "big heavy alien device" is not valid anymore.

I can wear my Reverb G2 for many hours without any discomfort at all.   I don't feel heat or get nauseous when using it.  I personally don't like VR for flightsim at this point, yet I would not use a monitor again for sim racing.  Nothing wrong in preferring VR or Monitor, but some here just don't seem to like other peoples reasons for their personal choice.

[Bjoern 1,183]

I'd totally go VR if there was a headset with adequate (low effort) Linux support.

AITrack is good, but not perfect and iI'm still bound to the field of view offered by my (27 ") monitor. I figure VR makes GA or helicopter flying much more natural and (especially the latter) much easier.

[mSparks 2,125]

43 minutes ago, Bjoern said:

if there was a headset with adequate (low effort) Linux support.

I mostly upgraded from 3 to 6dof today with your help. Really looking forward to taking this for a spin when I get back from travelling.

That sneaky smile isn't just because I know I look quite stupid.

[Bjoern 1,183]

20 hours ago, mSparks said:

I mostly upgraded from 3 to 6dof today with your help. Really looking forward to taking this for a spin when I get back from travelling.

Well, that surely is one way to get 6 DOF.

You can also build Opentrack with an Aruco tracker instead and just stick a marker to your VR goggles instead of a face. You'll save a program (AITrack) running in the background and Aruco's marker detection algorithm should be slightly faster, saving even more CPU cycles.

Edited August 21, 2023 by Bjoern

[mSparks 2,125]

11 hours ago, Bjoern said:

You'll save a program (AITrack)

well, not currently using opentrack.

aitrack spits out 6 doubles (x,y,z,r,y,p) over udp, for the headset I just mapped the x/y/z into the psvr driver and used the gyros in the headset for r/y/p.

Its tracking is simply great, builds a 3d model of where your heads at and uses that to produce location/roll data. 

point movement tracking still needs the tracking data converting into a 3D model, and its output is way too sketchy for VR, this is what aitrack is doing very well. (I tried that using opencv demos when I bought the headset, pure 3dof was more usable). instead of "points" it uses/recognises landmarks (eyes, ears, chin, mouth + another 60 more or smth) and uses that to build a head in 3D space.

I can probably spare an afternoon soon to knock up an aitrack xp plugin that bypasses the need for opentrack. Near perfect solution for 2D headtracking.

For the headset, I should be able to fuse this with the accelerometer output for solid 6dof. (thats how sony did it for the PS4, and it worked great)

3dof is generally fine for XP, problems I experience are e.g. not being able to stand up for parking the 744 (I bound spacebar to "stand up"), and the cyclic getting in the way of the frequency screens in the R44 (I bound spacebar to toggle lean left). going 6dof should make that much more manageable, but they weren't big enough issues to justify the faff and expense of tracking base stations.

But under no circumstances should it glitch the tracking, teleporting your head 10cm to one side in VR feels exactly what it sounds like - like you just got punched hard in the side of the head, in 2D you barely notice.

Edited August 22, 2023 by mSparks

[Bjoern 1,183]

16 hours ago, mSparks said:

I can probably spare an afternoon soon to knock up an aitrack xp plugin that bypasses the need for opentrack. Near perfect solution for 2D headtracking.

You can build on Amy's MIT licensed headtrack plugin: https://github.com/amyinorbit/headtrack

Make sure to implement a filter for the input data, which is what Amy's Headtrack is lacking and the reason why I use Opentrack for XP. Opentrack's source code has some examples, of which I find the Accela and NaturalMovement best: https://github.com/opentrack/opentrack

And make sure to have the output additive to XP's camera X,Y,Z and pitch, roll and yaw, at least while head tracking input is paused. I've implemented that for my fork of the Opentrack plugin because I found it irritating that the original plugin suppresses all other camera inputs.

 

P.S: The Windows release of AITrack, which is a few commits ahead of the Linux version, works really well with WINE.

Edited August 22, 2023 by Bjoern