X-Plane for pros

[SAS443 1,752]

On 10/13/2023 at 12:26 AM, mSparks said:

yeah, Diamond are simply aircraft enthusiasts, they dont know the first thing about the DA40 or DA42 really..

Maybe you should read what I wrote again 😉

They, they "enthusiasts" is the flying club who runs the sim.

Signed, DA40TDI/NG pilot. (Who has no clue about how a diamond works or who they are for matter)

😂

Edited October 15, 2023 by SAS443

[mSparks 2,132]

1 hour ago, SAS443 said:

They, they "enthusiasts" is the flying club who runs the sim.

Oh, you were talking about the people who switch the simulator on, not the DIAMOND specialists using simulator parts provided by DIAMOND and GRENZEBACH who designed it.....

Im gonna need it explaining why having them around makes it home entertainment purposes only.

 

 

Edited October 15, 2023 by mSparks

[flying_carpet 679]

1 hour ago, SAS443 said:

Maybe you should read what I wrote again 😉

They, they "enthusiasts" is the flying club who runs the sim.

Signed, DA40TDI/NG pilot. (Who has no clue about how a diamond works or who they are for matter)

😂

And you haven't thoroughly read what I have written, namely ...

On 10/12/2023 at 7:24 PM, flying_carpet said:

Not only that respective aviation club is using X-Plane 12 for their simulator, but according to the article in the magazine, it is almost structurally identical to a simulator at Diamond Aircraft.

 

Apart from that, what I basically meant (forgive my somewhat "sloppy" wording) is that people at an aero club are certainly "pros" compared to "gamers".

 

More professional usage? Here we are: https://www.fsr.tu-darmstadt.de/forschung_und_dienstleistung/ausstattung/simulator_1.en.jsp (TU Darmstadt, i.e. University of Technology in Darmstadt, Germany).

Their system: X-Plane + Linux. What kind of losers 😁.

Edited October 15, 2023 by flying_carpet

[Bjoern 1,188]

2 hours ago, mSparks said:

[ Robotic arm pilot training device ]

[ Checks dimensions of living room for no particular reason ]

[SAS443 1,752]

3 hours ago, flying_carpet said:

Apart from that, what I basically meant (forgive my somewhat "sloppy" wording) is that people at an aero club are certainly "pros" compared to "gamers".

"Gamers" are they those who fly XP and aren't real pilots/active flying members of an aero club?

I'm sorry but you keep throwing out these labels without any descriptions so I must ask for clarification.

Edited October 15, 2023 by SAS443

[mSparks 2,132]

1 hour ago, SAS443 said:

I'm sorry but you keep throwing out these labels without any descriptions so I must ask for clarification.

https://www.x-plane.com/product/x-plane-12-professional-use-usb-key/

Quote

Designed for professional-use and FAA-certified simulators, the Pro-Use Key will:

• Unlock the simulator from demo mode without an internet connection.
• Run frame-rate and joystick checks on startup, as is needed for FAA certification.
• Include image warping calculations to make the scenery look correct on curved projection screens (for spherical and cylindrical projection systems).
• Run edge blending calculations so that the images projected by adjacent projectors look correct (so that you do not get bright bands in the area of the projection between adjacent projectors).
• License your simulator for commercial use (i.e., any use of X-Plane outside your own home). A Pro-Use license is required for operating the X-Plane simulator for company use, universities, etc.

 

[turbomax 3,350]

4 hours ago, mSparks said:

parts provided by DIAMOND and GRENZEBACH who designed it.....

powered by a KUKA robot (like KUKA Roboter KR210 R2700 R3100 ultra Quantec) , as used in car factories throughout the world. cost ca. $ 30.000. extremely smooth and precise motion.

where can I order mine?

Edited October 15, 2023 by turbomax

[flying_carpet 679]

22 hours ago, SAS443 said:

"Gamers" are they those who fly XP and aren't real pilots/active flying members of an aero club?

I'm sorry but you keep throwing out these labels without any descriptions so I must ask for clarification.

Make up your mind yourself. You literally begged for it. Again and for the record:

On 10/12/2023 at 7:24 PM, flying_carpet said:

Not only that respective aviation club is using X-Plane 12 for their simulator, but according to the article in the magazine, it is almost structurally identical to a simulator at Diamond Aircraft.

 

Apart from that:

On 10/15/2023 at 4:21 PM, mSparks said:

Oh, you were talking about the people who switch the simulator on, not the DIAMOND specialists using simulator parts provided by DIAMOND and GRENZEBACH who designed it.....

Im gonna need it explaining why having them around makes it home entertainment purposes only.

 

 

One more:

On 10/15/2023 at 4:57 PM, flying_carpet said:

More professional usage? Here we are: https://www.fsr.tu-darmstadt.de/forschung_und_dienstleistung/ausstattung/simulator_1.en.jsp (TU Darmstadt, i.e. University of Technology in Darmstadt, Germany).

 

And even more (based on mSparks video above): if you ask your favorite search engine e.g. for "'x-plane' site:dlr.de" you will find more. In my opinion, the DLR (German Aerospace Center) is a kind of "pros", isn't it? If you search for other aerospace companies, associations, ... you probably will get more results.

Edited October 16, 2023 by flying_carpet

[SAS443 1,752]

1 hour ago, flying_carpet said:

Make up your mind yourself. You literally begged for it. Again and for the record:

You still haven't properly responded.

Do you consider yourself in the "gamer" camp? (Again, your own label, but you haven't described who they are)

Edited October 16, 2023 by SAS443

[Bjoern 1,188]

X-Plane is sold on Steam, which is a gaming distribution platform, so each and every X-Plane user is automatically a gamer, even by proxy (when buying XP from Laminar). Also, gamers are always 12 years old and 12 years old bicker a lot over nothing, especially online, which is a very familiar theme in these forums. Double proof of evidence. Checkmate. Case closed. 😎

Edited October 16, 2023 by Bjoern

[mSparks 2,132]

On 10/12/2023 at 7:24 PM, flying_carpet said:

but according to the article in the magazine, it is almost structurally identical to a simulator at Diamond Aircraft.

I was thinking more about non XP aircraft simulations - like "why would they build their own when its easier to do so in XP".

I think that choice is going to be more political than technical - namely reducing 3rd party dependancy/risk.

Having their own in house independant simulation - even if it isn't as good as they could build with XP - is preferable over the slightest risk that Laminar do or do not do something in the future they dont agree with, this has also been made worse by XP updates breaking third party aircraft.

For a while there we had the "experimental flight model" checkbox for exactly these reasons. I actually start to wonder if this should be a dropdown box, with the flight model having its own unique versioning system and the option to switch between them - while not loosing sight of the "best effort" to maintain backward compatibility. 

That wouldnt be a small undertaking tho.

[brinx 281]

28 minutes ago, mSparks said:

For a while there we had the "experimental flight model" checkbox for exactly these reasons. I actually start to wonder if this should be a dropdown box, with the flight model having its own unique versioning system and the option to switch between them - while not loosing sight of the "best effort" to maintain backward compatibility. 

Why not take the MSFS 2024 route and allow developers to opt into new flight model features they are interested in. Users selecting flight model versions would lead to a host of confusion when each plane requires a different flight model to be selected.

[mSparks 2,132]

1 hour ago, brinx said:

Why not take the MSFS 2024 route and allow developers to opt into new flight model features they are interested in. Users selecting flight model versions would lead to a host of confusion when each plane requires a different flight model to be selected.

The way that works in X-Plane atm the moment is to "opt in" to theoretically breaking features the aircraft needs to be saved with the latest version of planemaker, theoretically that should stop things breaking - practically its been seen time and again that it doesn't.

The "industry standard" way to do it, aiui is via HLA

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Level_Architecture

Wouldn't surprise me if HLA 4 support goes in the next major XP version.

[C2615 325]

"Pro" have 2 different aspect:

1. From regulation body. Your sim must have some authenticity, to be use for real pilot training, there are many level of FTD/FFS. it's not per software but per device, so you have to get both your software and hardware up to some standard, the software part is actually not that hard, even a FS2002 level software could do meet some level with proper hardware combination.

Also there are non-regulated training assist software/hardware used in commercial training scenario,  for example IPT, or some tablet based FMC training software airline provide to their pilot trainees for get familiarize without using the expensive simulator. If a fling school, flight club or airline or  so deem, they can buy P3D or XP or MSFS for that purpose, the FAA or EASA or who wouldn't have any words on that, but we have the 2nd problem:

 

2.Software license. So you have read the EULA don't you? for XP on Steam or retail, FSX,  MSFS and P3D non-pro version, the EULA said you can't use it in commercial / training or whatever, you can only use it for your own entertainment. If you brake the EULA, the copyright holder have the right to withdraw your license and sue you for compensate.

 

These thing can be mostly separate, one may be able to use even the XP on Steam, or FS9 or whatever with a lot plugins and costumed add-ons with proper hardware to meet the Level-D Full simulator standard, and even get the FAA certification if he really deem to, but due to the software license, you can't use it for any training except your own entertainment. Meanwhile, a basic software say it only shows what button means what in a 3D cockpit with proper license can be use to supplement airline pilot training (although not as a regulated simulator), actually my airline have made that kind of software with our own work and own the full copyright.

[mSparks 2,132]

3 hours ago, C2615 said:

If you brake the EULA, the copyright holder have the right to withdraw your license and sue you for compensate.

I'd go a lot further than that, commercial use of unlicensed IP in most countries is actually a criminal offence, there is (potential) prison time and huge fines for it.

https://www.justice.gov/archives/jm/criminal-resource-manual-1852-copyright-infringement-penalties-17-usc-506a-and-18-usc-2319

https://www.cbsnews.com/baltimore/news/md-man-pleads-guilty-in-software-piracy-case/

One of the key reasons I switched to Linux was to make that mine field cheaper easier to navigate.

But more than that, there is a "karma" thing going on, I know that is a weird way to describe it, but that can be very real (e.g. getting the Chernobyl virus from a crack they used), or more metaphysical:

If a provider is cutting corners on the software, good chance they are cutting even more serious corners elsewhere, that could be potentially life threatening - I'd [almost] bet money the people responsible for the 737Max simulator software were pirating other software.

(for clarity, there are no accusations of impropriety implied or asserted here, just more detail "why no one does or should do this" is more than just breaking an EULA or being sued by the IP owner)

Edited October 18, 2023 by mSparks