Airbus and Fenix flaps behavior correct ?

[roi1862 610]

Its been years since i flew the Fslabs in P3D so i dont really have a refence. But for those of you who knows, is the Fenix simulate correctly flaps 2 and pitch compensate ?  

Currently going from flaps 1 to flaps 2 does not lower the nose, and if i dont push the nose down the plane can reach VS of about 1000 fpm. 

Is this correct or broken ? 

Edited February 26 by roi1862

[carlanthony24 577]

Going from flaps 1 to flaps 2 will make the plane balloon up before pitching down which is simulated correctly. To avoid this pilots try to get on the glide slope the same time has going flaps 2.

[roi1862 610]

3 minutes ago, carlanthony24 said:

Going from flaps 1 to flaps 2 will make the plane balloon up before pitching down which is simulated correctly. To avoid this pilots try to get on the glide slope the same time has going flaps 2.

Thanks ! The only video refence cleared enough i could find is this. And in there it seems the is barely any pilot stick input going to flaps 2. Minute 0:40 

 

[carlanthony24 577]

You can see he decides to push it forward quite a bit to compensate for the plane trying to pitch up he starts losing the glide a little.

[roi1862 610]

3 minutes ago, carlanthony24 said:

You can see he decides to push it forward quite a bit to compensate for the plane trying to pitch up he starts losing the glide a little.

Hard to judge how much... In Fenix it feels quite aggressive. But if its how it is then that's how it is. 

[BerndB 349]

11 hours ago, roi1862 said:

Hard to judge how much... In Fenix it feels quite aggressive. But if its how it is then that's how it is. 

Roi, i wouldn´t refer too much to what they did in that video. I. ex. the pilot disengaged the autopilot unnessecarly, instead of let the aircraft handle the approach in managed mode. Maybe this was done just for the camera. It seems he even saw a need for use the speedbrakes in that flightphase, which shouldn´t be the case, if your approach was not too high or too fast. Anyway, this happens much in reallife, but you should not refer to it.

Try the following procedure: while approaching the final descent point in managed mode, at a speed of arround 200 knots and flaps set to one, set flaps 2 at about 3 to 7 miles before the final descent point and set the speed selected to 175 knots. It´s best practice if you have reached the final descent altitude already at that point, that you will intercept the GS from below. The real aicraft should not go up like a balloon, but decelerate down to the selected speed. At intercept the GS at the final decentpoint, just push the speed back into manged speed and the aicraft will do everything for you. It will constantly decelerate more and more down to the final app speed. At 2000 feet above the minima of your approach, set gear down and and when all three greeen set flaps 3 and instantly flaps full. Disengage the autopilot at land green or arround 300 feet above threshhold and the rest is history.

If this above will not work, the beahvior is NOT correct implemented.  

[martinboehme 496]

12 minutes ago, BerndB said:

Roi, i wouldn´t refer too much to what they did in that video. I. ex. the pilot disengaged the autopilot unnessecarly, instead of let the aircraft handle the approach in managed mode.

Most airlines encourage pilots to hand-fly if the situation (workload, weather) allows. Pilots need to be able to hand-fly, and if you don't practice, the skill atrophies.

Of course the airplane doesn't balloon if the autopilot is holding altitude, but that's not what the OP was asking - they wanted to know whether and to what degree the FBW corrects for the balloon effect when hand-flying.

My understanding is that, despite the FBW, the A320 does balloon on flap selection if the pilot doesn't correct for it. See this discussion on PPRuNe:

https://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-253852.html

[antic81 57]

I enjoy Stefan's videos. I think that Eurowings clearly encourage disconnecting most of the automatics on landing, obviously situationally depending. I notice a lot of the time its Autoflight off, Auto throttle off and Flight directors off. As mentioned, airlines who don't allow this type of flying do so at their peril. A friend of mine used to fly for a national carrier and they were against anything being switched off, he came out of the military flying Nimrods (really old kit with very few automatics). He absolutely felt skill fade as a result of these types of SOPS on the 320. Whereas the orange airline is again much more open to pilots hand flying. Seems to be in line with what Eurowings appear to encourage. 

Again you can clearly see the pilot arresting the nose up moment going from Flap 1 to Flap 2 in the above video. 

 

Now...where have they put my Fenix block 2??  

[DaveCT2003 1,820]

13 hours ago, roi1862 said:

Thanks ! The only video refence cleared enough i could find is this. And in there it seems the is barely any pilot stick input going to flaps 2. Minute 0:40 

 

OMG. Do you realize the video you posted are two guys flying a home simulator in MSFS on VATSIM?  If you look carefully, you can see the handlebars of a bicycle outside the pilot window.

As real as it gets!

Hehehehehehehehe!

 

[roi1862 610]

1 hour ago, antic81 said:

Now...where have they put my Fenix block 2??  

I still stand behind my assumption that the 47 minutes long video was to buy more time. How much time ? Good question. I would guess end of March at the earliest. 

[jcomm 5,961]

V2 will bring fine tuning in this area too... including Flap 3 landings.

Edited February 27 by jcomm

[BerndB 349]

4 hours ago, martinboehme said:

Most airlines encourage pilots to hand-fly if the situation (workload, weather) allows. Pilots need to be able to hand-fly, and if you don't practice, the skill atrophies.

Of course the airplane doesn't balloon if the autopilot is holding altitude, but that's not what the OP was asking - they wanted to know whether and to what degree the FBW corrects for the balloon effect when hand-flying.

My understanding is that, despite the FBW, the A320 does balloon on flap selection if the pilot doesn't correct for it. See this discussion on PPRuNe:

https://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-253852.html

Even in manual flight the real airplane doesn´t "balloon" on setting F2, if the approach speed and configuration is correct. There is a slight momentum of lift, of course which needs only a very little and sensitve sidestick input. The OP was asking if the effect could be too aggressive and if it "baloons" it is in fact.

The second point i was heading up, is just not assume in general that those Videos are proving how it´s usually done in reality, if no camera is running. 

The fact, that some posters here even believe, that "many" airlines encourage thier pilots switching off any automatics like autohrust and flightdirectors, can show how missleading, or missinterpretet those Videos are. But i want to make clear, that i don´t say that the pilots are not allowed to handfly if the situation allows this. It´s just that i would be careful by assuming this as usual by seeing this in videos, and not sitting day by day in the real cockpit.😉 

[antic81 57]

2 hours ago, roi1862 said:

I still stand behind my assumption that the 47 minutes long video was to buy more time. How much time ? Good question. I would guess end of March at the earliest. 

Yes I get the same sense. I think Dave made another gross error of judgement on 1st of Jan when he said its weeks not months, sadly long periods can also be measured in weeks! I mean it could be 53 weeks for all we know! 

In all honesty I am ok waiting! 

[antic81 57]

8 minutes ago, BerndB said:

Even in manual flight the real airplane doesn´t "balloon" on setting F2, if the approach speed and configuration is correct. There is a slight momentum of lift, of course which needs only a very little and sensitve sidestick input. The OP was asking if the effect could be too aggressive and if it "baloons" it is in fact.

The second point i was heading up, is just not assume in general that those Videos are proving how it´s usually done in reality, if no camera is running. 

The fact, that some posters here even believe, that "many" airlines encourage thier pilots switching off any automatics like autohrust and flightdirectors, can show how missleading, or missinterpretet those Videos are. But i want to make clear, that i don´t say that the pilots are not allowed to handfly if the situation allows this. It´s just that i would be careful by assuming this as usual by seeing this in videos, and not sitting day by day in the real cockpit.😉 

Absolutely don't disagree, its in fact what the national carrier and probably most others do insist upon over here in the UK. 

However, saying that, do you not think there is a danger in skill fade if you are on automatics at 400 feet and then Autoflight off at 1200 ft?

I will admit that I did not realise that autothrust off was actually a thing until I saw it. I'm guessing you have time on the 320? Would this be to compensate for slow autothrottle responses in challenging conditions? I can't remember but I think that was one of the things my buddy didn't like about the aircraft, he now flies larger Boeings and seems to prefer them and their logic. Again spending years flying 500 feet over the North see in storms at night looking for submarines probably shapes what you enjoy to fly! haha!

[antic81 57]

And speak of the Devil! Apparently Fenix block 2 will be with us tomorrow! I take full credit. Aamir could not live with my sad little face any longer! 

But if there are any major bugs I deny any involvement!