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Rudi

FSX SP1 framerate anomoly

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Here is an interesting observation:1) The framerates are above 30 fps when flying the FSX Talkeetna mission2) In free flight, the framerates drop to below 20. a) in isolated areas where there are very few, and widely spaced airports, the framerate hovers around 20 :( in more congested areas where there are multiple airports clustered together, the framerates drop to about 6 - 10.Could there be some association between the number and type of airports in the proximity of the aircraft and framerate performance?I invite your ideas. Thanks!system: NVIDIA GeForce Go 7900 256 RAM / Dell 9400 2GB RAM 2 GhZ Core Duoresolution: 1440x900x32 windowed mode: bilinear, antialiasing, lens flare, advanced animationsscenery: medium detail radius; mesh 100%; mesh resolution 38 m; texture resolution 1m; water effects low 2.x; scenery complexity very dense; autogen density dense; ground scenery shadows;

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your setting : "scenery complexity very dense"Airports are very impacting on framerate, because not normal autogen.=> special, more detailed buildings=> more very detailed ground traffic : airport vehicles=> concentration of air trafficAll this together is already impacting on your FPS if you reach a single airport. Let alone if you reach a region with many airports, a lot of highways and a harbour (like NY) your FPS drop to single digits.Nothing unexpected here.Jan

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This effect appears to be independent of other factors that affect framerates. When all of the sliders are set to full right (max autogen, etc.) the framerates for the Talkeetna mission stay about 30 fps. At points where more than one airport is in the vincinity of the airplane (~20 miles) then framerates drop to about 6 fps.When all of the sliders are to to full left (no autogen, no traffic, etc.) then framerates for the Talkeetna mission stay about 40 fps. At points where more than one airport is in the vincinity of the airplane (~20 miles) then framerates drop to about 8 - 11 fps.The presence of more than one airport in the vincinity of the airplane has a larger effect on framerates than do terrain, autogen, resolution, traffic, etc. slider settings.That's the anomoly. It's not because of traffic, mesh settings, highways, autogen, complex buildings. It has to do with something with the airport itself, perhaps a bitmap or bgl that is clogging things up. Again, any ideas are welcomed. Thanks.

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I think you're missing the point, Rudi; I'll try to steer you in the right direction.Airports will hog framerates.1) Airports have a lot of custom-made buildings. The more unique buildings and area has, the more it will use up framerates. FSX has little trouble showing a thousand objects as long as they are the exact same thing. If more than one thing is different, though, then you get a slowdown.1a) Airport special buildings tend to have a high polygon/vertex count. An airport tower has much more geometry than an apartment block, and all of those concourses and such use up a lot of resources.1b) Moving jetways also use a lot of computing power. 1c) Custom buildings use custom textures. A few textures that are repeated many times use less computing power than many textures that are only used a few times to cover the same area. 2) Airports have a lot of custom traffic: car traffic on nearby roads, tarmac vehicles, and of course, airplanes. All of this traffic takes a tremendous hit out of your computing power. More than any one thing, traffic is your biggest CPU killer. Airports are natural hubs for traffic, after all, FSX is an aviation simulation, so it would stand to reason that where you find lots of airplanes, you'd have air traffic issues. 2a) The default FSX aircraft models have very complex geometry. Any number of these bad boys on your screen at one time will drag down your framerates. 3) Air traffic AI is more complex than ground traffic AI. Imagine that an airport is at the center of a spoked wheel. Airplanes travel to and from the airport along the spokes. The closer you get to the hub, the more airplanes you are going to find. Your computer has to deal with the pilotage of each AI aircraft, along with its own flight plan and air traffic control, all computations being performed as needed, i.e., there are no pre-rendered animations. So, closest to the hub, with the greatest interaction between aircraft is going to result in the greatest frame rate hit.If you have more than one airport in the region, the problem is multiplied!4) Special effects just add to the problem. If you have bloom or shadows on, you can expect to notice a greater slowdown: all those custom building shadows and runway light blooms require extra rendering passes - that means your computer slows down. Non-airport areas tend not to have as many special lights or shaders, with the possible exception of shoreline water.Jeff ShylukAssistant Managing EditorSenior Staff ReviewerAVSIM

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I appreciate and understand what you are saying. However, if the sliders for ai traffic, scenery complexity, mesh points, autogen density, etc. are turned down to zero, there should be a corresponding increase in framerates in the presence of multiple airports. That doesn't happen.Even when all of the complexity of scenery is turned down to zero, the presence of more than one airport in the proximity of the airplane causes the framerates to slow down considerably. In other words, merely the presence of more than one (could be two, three etc. it doesn't matter) accounts for the largest proportion of framerate decrease, independent of slider settings. This is an anomoly.Have I expressed myself clearly? Thanks!

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Ok, I just did your test.I went to the most taxiing place on earth : New York city La Guardia : - lot's of airports in the neighborhood- lot's of AI traffic (planes, cars and boats)- lot's of custom sceneryWith my normal settings : frame rates around 10. This is as expected.I turned traffic off : jump to around 13 Fr/sec. Flying is jerky.I turned autogen off : frame rates are between 15 and 20. Very flyable.I turned traffic back on, autogen still off : again 13 Fr/sec, but fluent.I turned all 3 off : custom buildings, autogen, traffic : Frames are hovering around 40Fr/sec.I did not change my other settings, only traffic, autogen and customer scenery sliders.So my findings are the opposite of your observations, but in accordance with our logic. I did not expect otherwise.My system : E6700 @ 3GHz *** edit:corrected cpu model ***3Gb of ram @ 600Geforce 8800GTS 640MB, latest beta driver 169.12.My normal settings : - preview DirectX 10 turned on- no lens flare - light bloom on- advanced animations- Anisotropic and Anti-aliasing on- 1680x1050- aircraft settings on max- scenery settings : - level of detail radius : Large - Mesh complexity 75, resolution 10m - texture resolution 1m; land detail textures on - water effects: High2.x - scenery complexity : very dense - autogen density : dense - no ground scenery shadows - special effects detail: high- weather : ultra high- Traffic : global settings highJan

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This is useful and helpful, thanks.Did you try taxiing or flying the aircraft in the pattern?Thanks so much.

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Hi, Rudi, I think I see what you are getting at.The sliders aren't completely intuitive. For some sliders, turning them to the left means "you don't see any of that", whereas for others, turning them to the left % means "you see the minimum of that". If the minimum is not zero, then there's still something there, even if you don't see it on screen. The texture and mesh resolution sliders are good examples of that. You can set the performance to the bottom, but because airports tend to have custom environments, your computer still has to make extra efforts to draw the screen in those areas. You can't dial the scenery sliders so low that you actually get rid of the airports. This is an interesting thread, lots of good discussion and flight testing!Jeff ShylukAssistant Managing EditorSenior Staff ReviewerAVSIM

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>Here is an interesting observation:>>1) The framerates are above 30 fps when flying the FSX>Talkeetna mission>2) In free flight, the framerates drop to below 20. > a) in isolated areas where there are very few, and widely>spaced > airports, the framerate hovers around 20> :( in more congested areas where there are multiple>airports > clustered together, the framerates drop to about 6 ->10.>>Could there be some association between the number and type of>airports in the proximity of the aircraft and framerate>performance?>>I invite your ideas. Thanks!>>>>>system: NVIDIA GeForce Go 7900 256 RAM / Dell 9400 2GB RAM 2>GhZ Core Duo>resolution: 1440x900x32 windowed mode: bilinear, antialiasing,>lens flare, advanced animations>scenery: medium detail radius; mesh 100%; mesh resolution 38>m; texture resolution 1m; water effects low 2.x; scenery>complexity very dense; autogen density dense; ground scenery>shadows;>Try turning off lens flare, advanced animations, lower your water setting, and turn off ground scenery shadows.

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Thanks everyone for your input. It turns out that when I disable anti-aliasing in the FSX settings menu the program begins to react in ways that make sense. That is to say, when I turn down the sliders the program runs faster and when I turn up the settings fps goes down. I don't even need FSX antialiasing since the GeForce Go 7900 driver does a very nice job on its own. It could be that there are special airport-related textures that the GeForce driver chokes on. But now I can successfully make a balance between eye candy and performance. Thanks again everyone for your helpful input and ideas, I appreciate it!Good flying everyone!

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