Frame generation in MSFS - the good and the bad

[Ojisan_alpha 5]

1 minute ago, FBW737 said:

I don't know how anyone can say that. Although the dlssg-to-fsr3 mod (I assume that is what you are talking about here) does deliver the extra frames its a stutter and ghosting of menus mess. 30fps with it is far far superior to 60fps with it. At least for anyone who knows what they are doing! I thinkered with it for about a month up to and including the current version and it simply doesn't work in MSFS. I may work very well indeed in other titles. I don't know. But even the developer acknowledged that it has problems in MSFS.

Well -  simply don't have the menus open all the time, as I do. Apart from the menus the dlssg-to-fsr3 mod is nearly completely free of artifacts, and no stutter at all.
FG in FS2020 works extremely well on most systems, mine for example - at least as long as there's enough VRAM available.

 

[DD_Arthur 1,050]

If you’re sensitive to the quality of the menu displays then FG is undoubtedly going to be a problem.

However, for many of us who don’t have 40 series cards the FG mod - combined with the LoD mod - has been a godsend.

Apart from menus, the only artifacts I’m aware of are some funky action going on through the side window - out of the corner of my eye - during initial touchdown. I’m too focused on the actual landing for this to be a distraction though.

I use TrackIr; no ghosting, no tearing…..

 

[FBW737 512]

31 minutes ago, Ojisan_alpha said:

Well -  simply don't have the menus open all the time, as I do. Apart from the menus the dlssg-to-fsr3 mod is nearly completely free of artifacts, and no stutter at all.
FG in FS2020 works extremely well on most systems, mine for example - at least as long as there's enough VRAM available.

When it was released it instigated a huge thread on this forum. I got the distinct impression the majority of user complained of Ghosting, serious artifacts with high speed motion like landing gear and sever stutters when panning. Reading the thread I came to the conclusion that the few saying its 'Amazing' really wouldn't know smooth game play if they saw it and were just obsessed with seeing their frame counter at 60 instead of 30. WOW! But maybe you are one of the lucky ones who, if they really exist, got smoother game play at 60fps with dlssg-to-fsr3 than they did at 30fps without it. I've been a Flight Sim enthusiast for long enough to know that many participant don't understand that extra FPS is only good when it does not come at the expense of smoothness.

Edited March 28 by FBW737

[reecemj 147]

4 hours ago, FBW737 said:

Anyone using a modern TV for display purposes with MSFS owes it to themselves to try it! There are a ton of Pros and no cons that I can see.

Would like to try this on my Samsung. Is there a tutorial?

[Ojisan_alpha 5]

3 hours ago, FBW737 said:

Reading the thread I came to the conclusion that the few saying its 'Amazing' really wouldn't know smooth game play if they saw it and were just obsessed with seeing their frame counter at 60 instead of 30. WOW! But maybe you are one of the lucky ones who, if they really exist, got smoother game play at 60fps with dlssg-to-fsr3 than they did at 30fps without it. I've been a Flight Sim enthusiast for long enough to know that many participant don't understand that extra FPS is only good when it does not come at the expense of smoothness.

I'm not going to discuss this in detail, but I can assure you that 70 fps in very, very dense environment feel very, very smooth on my part. Did I mention the complete lack of microstutters?

[KL Oo 700]

My biggest issue with FG, and the reason I don't use it, is that with my non Gysnc TVs you can't prevent tearing as VSYNC doesn't work.

 

That, and the fact that FG only works on the main MSFS window and not access multi monitors means the main screen gets a nice FPS bump from FG but the side monitors don't. 

 

Fingers crossed 2024 fixes some of these issues.

[FBW737 512]

2 hours ago, reecemj said:

Would like to try this on my Samsung. Is there a tutorial?

just plug your system into the TV via HDMI and start the sim. Set your refresh rate to 23hz in NCP. The TV will likely turn on the Judder reduction (frame interpolation) itself or you'll have to do it manually. If not just pick up the TV remote control, Press setting and the on screen display will appear. Highlight expert setting and scroll down to Auto Motion Plus setting and under that menu set Judder Reduction to 10. That it. Press the enter button when the Judder reduction menu is on screen and the menus closes and shows the slider at the bottom of the screen. Using the remote you can slide it back for 0 to 10 and you should be able to see a huge difference. There is no frame counter. you just have to trust your eyes. Once the Judder reduction is on you can change the refresh rate to 29hz for 58fps on screen. I'm not sure it works with display port. I seem to remember having trouble with that so use HDMI.

Edited March 28 by FBW737

[reecemj 147]

5 minutes ago, FBW737 said:

just plug your system into the TV via HDMI and start the sim. Set your refresh rate to 23hz in NCP. The TV will likely turn on the Judder reduction (frame interpolation) itself or you'll have to do it manually. If not just pick up the TV remote control, Press setting and the on screen display will appear. Highlight expert setting and scroll down to Auto Motion Plus setting and under that menu set Judder Reduction to 10. That it. Press the enter button when the Judder reduction menu is on screen and the menus closes and shows the slider at the bottom of the screen. Using the remote you can slide it back for 0 to 10 and you should be able to see a huge difference. There is no frame counter. you just have to trust your eyes. Once the Judder reduction is on you can change the refresh rate to 29hz for 58fps on screen. I'm not sure it works with display port. I seem to remember having trouble with that so use HDMI.

Thanks.. Ill give it a try soon.

[FBW737 512]

16 hours ago, reecemj said:

Thanks.. Ill give it a try soon.

let me know how it works out for you and if you have any questions

[aniiran 431]

For me a 40 series card was not worth it with an i7 9700k and an old Z390 mother board. I got tons of artifacts to the point it was unplayable depending on the settings.  If your CPU is old your going to get more of these wierd artifacts.  Now that I have an i7 13700K and 4080 super I don't get any artifacts with frame gen and TAA DX 12. 

It's one of the reasons I made a YouTube video to show the ugliness of trying to run a 40 series card on an old motherboard and old CPU.

i7 9700k with 4070 vs i7 13700K with 4080 super:  https://youtu.be/rUK6pMPKAt0

I also did FSR 3 with an i7 9700K and RTX 2070 SUPER Vs Native Frame Gen with the i7 9700k and a RTX 4070. https://youtu.be/tshCfgNFfCk

 

Edited March 29 by aniiran
didn't make sense

[Cpt_Piett 4,694]

38 minutes ago, aniiran said:

i7 9700k with 4070 vs i7 13700K with 4080 super:  https://youtu.be/rUK6pMPKAt0

Excellent demonstration of the importance of pairing a RTX40 card with a decent CPU. The 9700K's mainthread got so hammered at KLAX at ultra/high settings with FSLTL that it became a stuttery world not allowed mess unlike anything I've seen before. With more reasonable settings it wasn't too bad though. 

[aniiran 431]

1 hour ago, Cpt_Piett said:

Excellent demonstration of the importance of pairing a RTX40 card with a decent CPU. The 9700K's mainthread got so hammered at KLAX at ultra/high settings with FSLTL that it became a stuttery world not allowed mess unlike anything I've seen before. With more reasonable settings it wasn't too bad though. 

Well sounds like I did my job then.  I think some higher level thinkers in my comments section figured out that not only is the problem the CPU but the motherboard as well.  A 40 series card is PCI 4.0 X 16 and my motherboard  is a 3.0 X 8.  The PCI lanes were further strangling the GPU performance. Without frame gen there was actually worse performance with the 4070 than the 2070 super.

[TheFamilyMan 280]

Excellent OP and observations!  I concur that MSFS is absolutely jaw dropping visually (immersively so) considering too what it takes to run it acceptably well (note that acceptability is rightfully in the eyes of the beholder).

Being a VR sim flyer, FG is not a concern (nor possible) but eye candy definitely and always has been.  Note that VR HMDs automatically use reprojection, which effectively is FG done by the HMD software.  A lot more can be said about this, but that's homework left for the reader.

Edited March 30 by TheFamilyMan

[Cpt_Piett 4,694]

4 hours ago, aniiran said:

Well sounds like I did my job then.  I think some higher level thinkers in my comments section figured out that not only is the problem the CPU but the motherboard as well.  A 40 series card is PCI 4.0 X 16 and my motherboard  is a 3.0 X 8.  The PCI lanes were further strangling the GPU performance. Without frame gen there was actually worse performance with the 4070 than the 2070 super.

I did an extensive hardware upgrade about two years ago - 10900K to 12900KF paired with a Z690 MB which supports PCIe 5.0 x16. This turned out to be a good choice considering I upgraded from my trusty old 1080Ti to the 4090 a few months later. In hindsight I've been thinking I should have gone with team red, but I've been using Intel CPU's forever. 

[aniiran 431]

2 hours ago, Cpt_Piett said:

I did an extensive hardware upgrade about two years ago - 10900K to 12900KF paired with a Z690 MB which supports PCIe 5.0 x16. This turned out to be a good choice considering I upgraded from my trusty old 1080Ti to the 4090 a few months later. In hindsight I've been thinking I should have gone with team red, but I've been using Intel CPU's forever. 

The problem with the 9th gen is the Z390 couldn't accept a better chip. I wanted to go 4090 but the cost was just too much over the 4080 Super. I didn't find 15-20% better performance to be worth 800 dollars.

I feel the same as you about Intel VS AMD the 7800X3D was obviously a better CPU.  But my plan is to go i9 14900KS eventually since the Z790-P supports it.

Of course 3 years from now we will be talking about how obsolete an i7 13700K has become.