Intel i9 crashes

[RandallR 446]

Some of you are aware that I have reported a number of crashing issues with MSFS in the last few weeks - unfortunately, things are worse than ever and I am basically unable to run MSFS at all now.  (2 successful flights in the last 14 days).

After checking everything possible and performing every file and memory scan available (including complete reinstalls of Windows 10 and FS 2020) nothing has been resolved and failures continue.  And, it's not just FS - e-mail programs. video production systems, some browsers and other applications are also crashing.  The computer shop I have worked with for over 30 years has worked with me on these issues and has not been able to resolve them either.  I need to note that I built a new system in January which, for the most part, has been wonderful.  For at least a couple of months, I experienced the best performance I've ever had with all of my applications (including FS).

Now, with all of the crashes and all tests and procedures failing to correct the issues, I received a communique from my PC shop that the Intel i9-14900K processor is generating a slew of failure reports around the world, especially with gamers.  I happen to have an ASUS Z790 motherboard - ASUS is providing a custom BIOS update for their boards which apparently includes an "Intel Baseline Profile option" to let users revert to the Intel factory default settings.  The unfortunate thing about this is that a number of performance enhancements of the i9 will be lost BUT I'm hoping that all of my failures will stop (and that I will be flying again).

Intel is supposedly investigating these issues and will hopefully resolve them.  I will be flashing this BIOS update in the coming week - I'll post here on the results.

[Biggles2010 343]

22 minutes ago, RandallR said:

Some of you are aware that I have reported a number of crashing issues with MSFS in the last few weeks - unfortunately, things are worse than ever and I am basically unable to run MSFS at all now.  (2 successful flights in the last 14 days).

More of a hardware issue than an MSFS one.  What temperatures are you recording, both core temps and case temps?  It's a real problem cooling these processors, which is probably behind many of the reported issues. While overheating should be controlled by built in throttling, it's not guaranteed to keep things running. The other thing to check is the PSU. Does it provide a stable output under load?  Third thing is the memory. Have you overclocked it beyond XMP1?  In any case, has it been tested at the settings you are using?

It will be interesting to see what effect the new Bios has, on performance and stability.

[sloppysmusic 261]

49 minutes ago, RandallR said:

I received a communique from my PC shop that the Intel i9-14900K processor is generating a slew of failure reports around the world, especially with gamers.  I happen to have an ASUS Z790 motherboard

Hey as a matter of interest I have the same CPU and MB as you. Well the 790 Riptide Wifi

As soon as my machine was received I installed the 5.07 BIOS update. I have had a very stable machine since install, no MSFS crashes except when closing sometimes. My machine is water cooled , I have never seen chip work over 30% on any thread yet except when stress testing.

I hope things work out for you great hardware must be either bad chip or cooling/software issue maybe?

[RandallR 446]

Under minimal loads the CPU's been running around 44° - the GPU around 36°.  I think the last time I measured in-flight the max temps were in the low 80s but only for a few seconds on occasion.  This new system ran FS beautifully (and with no crashes) for almost 3 months.

I believe the last bench test showed the PSU output to be stable (1000W unit) but I will verify.  The memory has been fully tested and I never overclock.

As these issues with the i9 are being reported by a lot of gamers, I thought it was appropriate to inform this forum.

[RandallR 446]

3 minutes ago, sloppysmusic said:

As soon as my machine was received I installed the 5.07 BIOS update. I have had a very stable machine since install, no MSFS crashes except when closing sometimes. My machine is water cooled , I have never seen chip work over 30% on any thread yet except when stress testing.

Thanks - - maybe I need to advance to water cooling?  I run very, very quiet fans as I am also a professional voice-over artist and, needless to say, the environmental background decibels have to be almost nonexistent for my recording work.

[bobcat999 8,489]

I first saw this last night with JayzTwoCents reporting on it.

My 14900k in a Z790 has been supremely stable since installation (using XMP as well), but I always run with 'Enforce All Limits' in the BIOS, unlike most boards which remove some limits from the start. 

I hope they get it sorted for you Randall.  As you say, it seems some motherboard manufacturers have been ignoring the Intel limits in the BIOS and pushing things a bit too far. 
Like you say, a Bios update (expected soon) should solve it.

[Bobsk8 12,814]

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/04/intel-is-investigating-game-crashes-on-top-end-core-i9-desktop-cpus/

Edited April 24 by Bobsk8

[RaptyrOne 1,447]

24 minutes ago, RandallR said:

maybe I need to advance to water cooling?  I run very, very quiet fans as I am also a professional voice-over artist

I don’t think the i9-14900K is happy with air cooling at all. All the YouTubers including Jayz have noted that. That CPU does generate a lot of heat. It’s not just the temp you see reported but the hot spot which can be 10 or more degrees higher. That could so easily be your problem (and solution). Invest in a decent 360mm AIO (all in one) liquid cooler. It will have 3 fans but the good ones run quietly, only spin up to audible levels when temps demand it. It will take 10 minutes to install.

Your i9 should be able to idle at room temperature when not in use. 45C is very high for idle/ low loads. My i7-14700K is also a hot CPU and at idle I am at 26C to 30C when ambient is around 24C.

I suggest you get a good AIO and also, Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut thermal paste to mount it. 

[RandallR 446]

2 hours ago, bobcat999 said:

My 14900k in a Z790 has been supremely stable since installation (using XMP as well), but I always run with 'Enforce All Limits' in the BIOS, unlike most boards which remove some limits from the start

A peek into the current BIOS shows 'Load Optimized Defaults' but there doesn't appear to be another choice?  This may be due to my current BIOS version?

Edited April 24 by RandallR

[RandallR 446]

41 minutes ago, RaptyrOne said:

I suggest you get a good AIO and also, Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut thermal paste to mount it.

What AIO are you using - any recommendations?

[bobcat999 8,489]

8 minutes ago, RandallR said:

What AIO are you using - any recommendations?

A Corsair 150 water cooler, which is cool and quiet under normal operation, but with all cores going flat out in something like CineBench, it can still easily reach 100C and start throttling, but I am just lucky I don't get any CTD's or blue Screens. 
Obviously no overclocks at all.  I was looking to try an underclock under volt to reduce temps, but I have heard they are also quite sensitive to that also, and I don't want to upset what I have at the moment. 

If you are wondering if you cooler might be the problem, whatever you have, I don't think it will help as it isn't a cooling issue. 
As they throttle at 100 anyway and they can take that.  More likely a Voltage / amps / microcode issue, or something needs adding in a new BIOS to bring them back inside the envelope.

These chips are right on the limit as standard.  It's like they are boxed right in on coffin corner with no room to move!    Unless you have a special sample that is a bit more tolerant of course.

[RaptyrOne 1,447]

10 minutes ago, RandallR said:

What AIO are you using - any recommendations?

I am using a DeepCool LS720SE. 360mm with 3x 120mm fans. It is a mid to upper mid range AIO. Runs quietly and looks good. I also invested in the Thermal Grizzly Paste. It has a very good reputation as a premium thermal paste. Any of the big brand AIO’s should do you well. Just go for 360mm, not 240mm. An i9 deserves it!😉

Edited April 24 by RaptyrOne

[bobcat999 8,489]

3 minutes ago, RaptyrOne said:

... It has a very good reputation as a premium herbal paste...

A herbal paste?  Well if you can go natural, more the better!     (of course I know you mean Thermal Raptyr).

[RaptyrOne 1,447]

🤣🤣 I jumped in and edited that but you beat me to it!🤣

[bobcat999 8,489]

3 minutes ago, RaptyrOne said:

🤣🤣 I jumped in and edited that but you beat me to it!🤣

Yes. I use that paste as well. It's good stuff!