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RFields5421

FS9 to FSX

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Hi all,How do you go about transferring all these AI flight plans and AI aircraft from FS9 into FSX?Also will the 150 airports I downloaded and installed work if I just transfer them into FSX folder?Thanks!MarcIntel® Dual Core E2140 - 2gig RAM - Nvidia 8800 GTS 640mb - 450 gig 7200rpm HDD - 2 x 19" widescreen LCD displays - Saitek X52, Yoke and rudder pedals

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Hi,You may get a more comprehensive answer from Reggie Fields (guru of all things AI) but in the meantime the short answer is technically yes, with limitations. I am still using all my FS9 traffic (Ultimate Traffic, Ultimate GA, and self coded flightplans) with no apparent problems. The airports, however, are a mixed bag. The files will work but FSX features may sit on the FS9 airport runways, taxiways etc. I've modified a few copies of FS9 airport AF2 files for use in FSX and a friend is busily adding additional parking to FSX airports with the newly available airports editors but most may not line up very well without some updating. If the FS9 and FSX airports are not fairly close in alignment, there can be problems with AI making their approach to the airport - I don't run a very high level of AI traffic so I haven't noticed any issues personally.Loyd

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>Hi all,>>How do you go about transferring all these AI flight plans and>AI aircraft from FS9 into FSX?>>Also will the 150 airports I downloaded and installed work if>I just transfer them into FSX folder?>>Thanks!>>Marc>>Intel® Dual Core E2140 - 2gig RAM - Nvidia 8800 GTS 640mb ->450 gig 7200rpm HDD - 2 x 19" widescreen LCD displays - Saitek>X52, Yoke and rudder pedals Firstly, all FS9 (TTools-based) traffic files must be run through one of the available conversion utility programs to put them into FSX format. Otherwise you will loose you default FSX AI aircraft and shipping traffic. The AI aircraft themselves may suffer a few problems such as solid prop discs, an AcellSP2 induced problem, but for the most part the PAI, Ardvark models that I've imported work fine. I would suggest that you do a couple of "housekeeping" things before dragging in a bunch of files and folders. Create a new "AI Aircraft" folder for holding your FS9 AI folders. In fsx.CFG just add that folder to the "Main" listing: [Main]User Objects=Airplane, HelicopterSimObjectPaths.0=SimObjectsAirplanesSimObjectPaths.1=SimObjectsRotorcraftSimObjectPaths.2=SimObjectsGroundVehiclesSimObjectPaths.3=SimObjectsBoats//SimObjectPaths.4=SimObjectsAnimalsSimObjectPaths.4=SimObjectsMiscSimObjectPaths.5=SimObjectsAircraft <--- my imported FS9 flyable aircraftSimObjectPaths.6=D:FSX AI Aircraft <--- my imported FS9 AISimObjectPaths.7=D:FSX Military AI <--- my imported FS9 Military AIThe new folder(s) can be located anywhere, even your within you FS9folder structure, as long as you specify the path properly. For the AFCADs and traffic BGL's I would cretae a new folder to hold them. Mine is "Addon Scenery 2" located on my D: drive along with the AI aircraft folders. FSX is on my I: drive. I place the AFCADs for an area in a folder along with the traffic BGL file for that area. When you are ready to add it to FSX just go to the "SettingsScenery Library" and "Add Area". This way you can selectively enabledisable various forms or regions of traffic. I use the main area or airport name for the folder and it contains the "scenery" and "texture" folders just as the folders in the Addon Scenery folder in FS9 ( and FSX ). The AFCADS should be converted to FSX format by loading them into one of the newer "AFCAD-like" tools. ADE and FSX Planner are a couple that I use alot. Most FSX airports are displaced from their FS9 positions so some "tweaking" might be needed. Also, a great many FSX airports have absolutely NO parking beyound a "Fuel box" so you WILL need to use FS9 AFCADS or create your own parking useing ADE or FSX Planner. I've been doing ALOT of this lately, to create military AI traffic around the USA. First I load the FSX stock airport and save it as an XML file. I then load the FS9 AFCAD for that airport and save it as an XML file. Then I cut & paste applicable sections from the stock airport into the FS9 AFCAD xml and compile the FS9 xml file into the FSX format. Load it to FSX and test it. Edit and repeat. So, the biggest issue is the airports and parking...editing and converting the AFCAD files. The AI planes are mostly a simple "copy" ( or not ) to the new folder. The traffic files just run through the converter and straight into the "scenery" folder. Hope this helps, Paul

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They've covered most of the key points - but you can just copy everything over and have a good start - cleanup as you have time between flying.You have to decide if the ship traffic is important - but I'd strongly recommend using AIFPC to convert your flight plans to FSX format - because it will update the airport code changes. This is especially important for any flightplans involving Japan, Indonesia or India.You will want to dump the default GA AI - and use these alternate TTools format GA flight plans. They are the same as FSX default - but you can get rid of the commercial aircraft call signs. And you don't have to put up with the default CRJ, Airbus and Boeing aircraft as AI. Do not go into the aircraft.cfg files and start changing titles so the aircraft don't show up in the AI - there are many other FSX processes which depend upon some of the default aircraft being present with their default titles.Download the FSX GA traffic and put the .BGL files in your traffic folder (still SceneryWorldScenery )to replace your trafficAircraft.bgl.http://www.flightsim2004-fanatics.com/uplo...A/Def_GA_DL.htm(These are currently TTools format - I have to update them with AIFPC this weekend)AI Aircraft - FSX will show non-textured parts of the AI aircraft as black. FS2004 showed it as grey. The difference makes a significant visual difference in some AI models - and at some LOD.FSX does NOT like duplicate aircraft titles - it will yell at you. In FS2004 we usually just got the wrong aircraft showing up. I think neither shows up in FSX.AI Parking Size - Most FS2004 aircraft need their parking setup for FSX - because the model radius is no longer used. The wing_span= value in the airplane_geometry section of the aircraft.cfg controls parking.This number must be in FEET and will be converted to meters, halved and rounded up to the next whole meter. The AIA B747's are the worst - showing up in small gates without being updated. Numbers for the main commercial aircraft:http://www.flightsim2004-fanatics.com/Flig...gSpanValues.htmPersonally I don't like the default FSX parking spot sizes - the Gate Medium puts B762 & B763 aircraft in heavy spots. I change my Medium Gates to 24.1 M in size.Jetways - AI aircraft need the exits section of the aircraft.cfg file redone to make the jetways and baggage loaders work - Two sources for this information - http://ultimatetraffic.flight1.net/forums/...ts.asp?TID=2962 (John Goodwins' work)http://www.evolveai.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3024 (Denny Payne's work)Note for Dash 8 and some other small aircraft - baggage loaders will only connect to the right side of the aircraft. They can be setup to attach to a cargo door on the left - but they will approach from the right and extend the baggage conveyor through the aircraft.Airports - the good news is that vast majority of the main FSX commercial airports have way, way more parking than FS2004 - so the number of airport data files needed to get your AI in use is much smaller.You really, really don't want to use FS2004 AFCAD files in FSX - they basically turn the airport into an FS2004 airport.As noted above - one of the biggest changes in FSX is the new world model - and that moved a lot of airports to WGS84 locations so their positions more closely match GPS readings.As noted - that means - taxiways in the trees, parking far away from buildings, etc.There are three tools currently available to work exclusively with FSX airports - Flight1's AFX payware, FSXPlanner and Airport Design Editor.FSXP and ADE require that you have the FSX Deluxe version with the SDK loaded - and the SDK updated to the SP1 version - preferably the SP2 version include in Acceleration - but probably to be released soon.I'm vastly in favor of ADE because I've been in on the development. It doesn't do everything which folks want to do yet - but is close and IMHO the program which uses the least non-compliant tricks and produces the cleanest airport files.One word of warning - if you download an airport created with AFX, it needs to be updated / edited with AFX only. FSXP airports - FSXP only, ADE airports - ADE only.There are also several XML hand coded airports available - they need to not be edited with any of those three tools unless you understand how to produce clean XML code to input into ADE or FSXP.Really Good News - Multiple parking codes work in FSX AI aircraft. I have my UAL B744's coded as atc_parking=UALI,UAL.When those aircraft land at San Francisco - they park at the International terminal in parking spots with code UALI. When they land at other airports - they park in UAL spots.It looks like four codes will work - (parking spots still have the FS2004 limit of only four codes being used as priority over parking radius).That's really useful for the European charter carriers - i.e. MON,CHTRand for separating aircraft types which fly international routes is the flightplans are built that way.We've also used them for things like AALJ,AALX and AALT,AALX at KMIA for regional jets and turboprops. We coded the gate parking as AAL, AALJ so we would get the mainline and the regional jets using the jetway gates, but not the turbo-props. And both aircraft use AALX parking at other airports.

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I might also mention that we are still learning about the differences in AI in FS2004 and FSX.Something about AI behavior was brought to our attention yesterday. According to everything we know about FS2004 - this behavior should not occur. We are testing to see if it is really a change in FSX, or something we did not properly understand in FS2004."It's not just a hobby, it's an adventure"

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Reggie, Would we add one line in our FSX AI aircraft.cfg like this: atc_type=AIRBUS atc_model=A321 editable=0 performance=AI Aircraft Only Category=airplane --> wing_span=18 ?? If not, how would we modify the aircraft.cfg of all of the AI we've imported from FS9? The wingspan information on the default aircraft is imbeded in a lot of other data. I've taken to modifying a few airports with Aircraft radii from FS9 -- and that's a lot of unnecessary work it seems.

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SteveDO NOT add any lines to the aircraft.cfg because the wingspan is already in there.This is the FSX default B737 so look for this section in any aircraft.cfg bracket | airplane_geometry | bracketwing_area = 1344.0 //Square feetwing_span = 117.42 //FeetDivide the Wing_span = 117.42 in half (58.71 ft)Convert 58.71 Ft to Meter (17.8948) round up to 18.0M and that is the minimum size parking spot the default B737 will park in.If you need a true Wing span value in Ft for most planes go to the following linkhttp://www.airliners.net/info/

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I understand that in the default aircraft. What I'm asking about is what about AI aircraft you import over from FS9 -- or from WoAI, etc. Is that information in all of those aircraft?For example, I was working with an AFCAD for Cleveland and changed all of the Jetlink parking spots at Terminal D (ERJs) to 11 m. I went there and no aircraft. I changed them back to 15 m and recompiled and viola! The ERJs were all there. In FS9, the ERJs are set at 15m....Steve

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>>http://www.flightsim2004-fanatics.com/uplo...A/Def_GA_DL.htm>>(These are currently TTools format - I have to update them>with AIFPC this weekend)>ReggieIf you are referring to your "split-out" GA files, I might mention to you, that I attempted using AIFPC on some of those files a few months ago, and it was only partially successful.The C208 file converted fine. However the Baron file did not (it was still an FS9 file after 'conversion'), for example. I am not sure why some files converted fine and others did not, and I did not spend much time with it. I hope you have more success. Perhaps that was an older version of AIFPC I was using.RhettAMD 3700+ (@2585 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2gb Corsair XMS 3-3-3-8 (1T), WD 150 gig 10000rpm Raptor, WD 250gig 7200rpm SATA2, Seagate 120gb 5400 rpm external HD, CoolerMaster Praetorian

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>I understand that in the default aircraft. What I'm asking>about is what about AI aircraft you import over from FS9 -- or>from WoAI, etc. Is that information in all of those>aircraft?>It should be. They should already have a wing_span entry in their respective aircraft.cfg files.However, that value MAY BE INCORRECT. Reggie mentioned the AI Aardvark 747's as being wrong. Well, The Fruit Stand 777's wing_span vals are 126 feet. 126 feet!!! (The correct wing span of a 777-200 is 199 feet).So the key is, at most you should just have to fix the existing wing_span value rather than add a new entry.>For example, I was working with an AFCAD for Cleveland and>changed all of the Jetlink parking spots at Terminal D (ERJs)>to 11 m. I went there and no aircraft. I changed them back>to 15 m and recompiled and viola! The ERJs were all there. >In FS9, the ERJs are set at 15m....>Well, I think you went too small. Most ERJ's need more than 11m. 11m is generally too small. Consult Reggie's chart though, I don't have it in front of me.For parking spots where I want a regional jet to park, I tend to use 15.1m as a parking radius in FSX...but this is by no means fixed. If I need a 14m spot to get my AI parking properly, I will. Let me explain:In FSX, aircraft like to park at a radius that is CLOSEST TO THEIR WING SPAN. That means, if you have a Boeing 737 that needs an 18-meter spot, that 737 will ignore a 19m spot, if an 18m spot is available.How does this relate to your ERJ parking? Lets assume that the ERJ you have, really does need an 11m parking spot. You have 15m spots available. However, if you have any spots--any--that are 11,12,13, or 14m is size, your ERJ's will park there first.How does this affect you as an airport designer? It means you can have much greater control over what aircraft parks where...BEYOND what you can do with simple airline codes. For example, if you have a row of GATE_HEAVY spots, and you want 777's to park at certain ones, and Boeing 747's to park at other spots, you can designate a couple of spots at 31.1-meter in size, and the 777's will park at those. The 747's will not touch them. They will go for the 33.1m spots.There are some other tricks, too, but that's the gist of it.RhettAMD 3700+ (@2585 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2gb Corsair XMS 3-3-3-8 (1T), WD 150 gig 10000rpm Raptor, WD 250gig 7200rpm SATA2, Seagate 120gb 5400 rpm external HD, CoolerMaster Praetorian

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>I might also mention that we are still learning about the>differences in AI in FS2004 and FSX.>>Something about AI behavior was brought to our attention>yesterday. Now you have me curious...what was that?RhettAMD 3700+ (@2585 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2gb Corsair XMS 3-3-3-8 (1T), WD 150 gig 10000rpm Raptor, WD 250gig 7200rpm SATA2, Seagate 120gb 5400 rpm external HD, CoolerMaster Praetorian

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>Now you have me curious...what was that?We assumed based on the experience with AFCAD2 that the hold short node had to be within 225 feet of the runway - the actual runway, not any overruns.We also did not read closely in FS2004 and realize there are two different types "Overruns" and "BlastPads" and each type has different properties. AFCAD2 set all as BlastPads to FS but called them Overruns in the program.Based on behavior observed at KLAS Rwy 19R - we've done some detailed testing and learned the 225 ft number is not a hard and fast limit.Part of the distance requirement is the aircraft size. Also if the aircraft crosses the runway, or passed by a hold short node closer to the runway during it taxi out.We have also been told that the default hold short nodes at most airports were drawn based on a formula with runway width a key factor.The key impact to people with AI, not much, but it will explain why large aircraft will receive ask for and receive takeoff clearance at some airports and smaller aircraft will not.

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Ok, pretty interesting. I was looking at default KDFW the other day, and I noticed it has SEVERAL hold shorts that exceed the limit. This is in a default Microsoft airport.I was going to take some time and observe those spots but I haven't had the time. It's the western two parallel rwys at KDFW. Some of the hold shorts near it are beyond the limit.RhettAMD 3700+ (@2585 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2gb Corsair XMS 3-3-3-8 (1T), WD 150 gig 10000rpm Raptor, WD 250gig 7200rpm SATA2, Seagate 120gb 5400 rpm external HD, CoolerMaster Praetorian

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>>Really Good News - Multiple parking codes work in FSX>AI aircraft. I have my UAL B744's coded as>atc_parking=UALI,UAL.>>When those aircraft land at San Francisco - they park at the>International terminal in parking spots with code UALI. When>they land at other airports - they park in UAL spots.>I didn't know this! That is the best news I've heard all week!I am going to put this into practice! Very nice!RhettAMD 3700+ (@2585 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2gb Corsair XMS 3-3-3-8 (1T), WD 150 gig 10000rpm Raptor, WD 250gig 7200rpm SATA2, Seagate 120gb 5400 rpm external HD, CoolerMaster Praetorian

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Further studies based on Reggie's findIf the entrance taxiway is 90 degrees to the runway the new spec for a holdshort node is 300 ft from the side of a runway.All of this changes based on many factors if the entrance taxiway is at a angle to the runway. Now the holdshort can be moved further away.Some runways have overruns and/or displaced thresholds. A taxiway might enter the runway directly in line with the runway heading or on a angle. When this occurs FSX does not want a Plane stopping at a holdshort node that would be in the path of a landing airplane.My picture shows this example and the holdshort is 628 ft from the side of the displaced threshold. All Planes including AI stop at the holdshort and then the state changes to takeoff 1 once Tower clears the plane for takeoff. Only then will it continue to the runway. The departing plane holding at the holdshort never interfered with any arrivals..ta1cd4.jpg[/url]

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