At last, starting to get somewhere with MSFS2024 in VR

[AJZip]

I've really, really, really wanted to like MSFS2024 in VR.  And, as is sometimes the case with a particularly errant child, every time I've welcomed it in with open arms, it's trashed the house, kicked me in the ribs and driven off in my car, laughing.

But I've spent the best part of four full time days reading up everything I could find, trying many of the myriad of recommended settings, addons, tricks and techniques and, in spite of Microsoft's help (suspect W11 24H2 update, mandatory MSFS2024 update, etc, etc), I really do think I'm getting somewhere.

My aim is to be able to:

- Run either MSFS2020 or MSFS2024 through the Pimax Crystal Light without having to change the Pimax Play settings between sessions

- Use either the Pimax Crystal Light or the Meta Quest 3 without having to change any settings in common programs or hardware.

Yup - it's a big ask.

 

I've got from:     not being able to run MSFS2024 in VR successfully AT ALL

to:     the point where I have, more times than not, got MSFS2024 to repeatably run smoothly in VR - and with graphics that, starting to at least, get close to MSFS2020 visuals for a lightplane, an airliner and a jet fighter. 

 

I'm still experimenting (and stealing as many ideas from anyone I can!) but, over the next few posts I'll outline the things I've tried, the things that have worked and the things that haven't. 

[AJZip]

So - let me start with the MSFS2024 VR Graphics settings.

And here I admit to some confusion I had in my understanding.  In MSFS2020, most VR users followed the mantra that - DX12 means using DLSS and that means that the cockpit text and dials are not going to be sharp.  So the preference, I think, for many of us for MSFS2020 is DX11 with TAA .  Here we have a hit on the frame rate but there are fewer visual aberrations and much sharper cockpit details.

And this was part of the consternation that MSFS2024 is DX12 only.

And in my mind, that meant that either TAA was not going to be available or, if it was, the frame rate hit was going to be intolerable.

What my experiments have concluded are:

Yes - MSFS2024 only uses DX12

Yes - TAA mode is available in MSFS2024

And yes - there is a (quite significant) frame rate hit

But actually - MSFS2024 seems relatively tolerant to low frame rates (here, low is at, or just below 30fps)

So, after a lot of test flights and tweaking up and tweaking down, this is the top line I am presently working with (PC specs in signature below):

So:

TAA - as explained above

Render scaling - I want to use either Pimax Play or, eg, OpenXR ToolKit, to determine my render scaling, depending on which headset I'm using, so set at 100%

AMD FidelityFX Sharpening - I will carry on experimenting but at the moment 160

Reprojection - Off

World Scale - 100%

NVidia reflex low latency - I think it was VRSimGuy who recommended this

Dynamic - On

Global Rendering - covered in next post

 

 

 

[odourboy]

I really want VR to succeed in 2024 and I keep going back to it, but I feel it's like pushing a chain up a hill. My conclusion is Asobo has to get a handle on the memory footprint for 2024 otherwise I'm just wasting my time.

[AJZip]

6 minutes ago, odourboy said:

I really want VR to succeed in 2024 and I keep going back to it, but I feel it's like pushing a chain up a hill. My conclusion is Asobo has to get a handle on the memory footprint for 2024 otherwise I'm just wasting my time.

I agree with the concern.  But there's a but.  Right in the middle of my experiments, MS did their worldwide MSFS2024 update.  But because I couldn't be sure whether the popping, crackling and stuttering was that or what I was doing with the settings I had to check what was going on in my system.  I was actually testing the Quest 3 at the time and so I set off the full MSFS performance stats but also used the OpenXR ToolKit stats.  I was surprised (and relieved) that everything seemed to be running within limits - VRAM/RAM/etc/etc.  The MSFS table showed it bouncing merrily between CPU limited to GPU limited so nothing taking a particularly big hammering...

My conclusion was (and is) that the stutters, pops and crackles were to do with MS's interesting method of loading the servers world-wide with a 2.5GB update and tens of thousands of PC and X-box users all trying it out.  By the following day, the pops and stutters were no longer there...and my settings had not changed.

[odourboy]

27 minutes ago, AJZip said:

  I was surprised (and relieved) that everything seemed to be running within limits - VRAM/RAM/etc/etc

I'll recheck this. I've only done one flight since the update and it wasn't fantastic, but as you suggested, it could have been server related.

[AJZip]

And so this is where I've made the biggest changes - I've maximised the things that matter to me and absolutely minimised those that don't.  It strikes me that this more a hikers' sim than a flying sim.  So fauna and flora really are not on my 'important' list - and the more I can shed the better.  Here are the customised VR graphics I'm currently experimenting with:

 

So, TLOD - quite important to me...I hate things popping up and morphing all the time.  It still does, but at 200 it does it less than at the default 100!  300 made it stutter a bit 😉 

I have some more experimenting to do with OLOD but have left it at default 100 for the time being.  Windshield effects are quite important, as are clouds, so at the moment I have them at the mid range area.  I'm assuming 'characters quality' are things like taxi way numbers, etc?  More playing to do but I've put that at ultra.  But, at the moment, Fauna, Grass, Flora, Shadows etc, etc are not of interest if it means a stutter fest.

With the Crystal Light at 110% custom render and the Quest 3 at around 3250x4000 per eye (through OXRTK), this is giving me smooth flying for all three types of aircraft, low and high, fast and slow with some graphics better than I get with MSFS2020 (runway markings is one I actually don't understand) about the same scenery visuals and likewise, cockpit text, glass cockpit and trad gauges sharp as in 2020.

Do I love it yet? 

Not yet:

- why oh why is the cockpit glass in MSFS2024 milky white??  You go external view, it looks bright and vibrant close too.  You look out from the cockpit, it looks like a misty day.  OK if you want to go for a stroll in the woods...but I've already made that point  

- Oh, and talking of which, the exaggerated mist at any distance (like the other end of the runway - well, that's a long, long way, surely!)

- and the popping up of large buildings quite close even with a pretty high TLOD 

BUT and this is a BIG BUT.  I did the same VFR trip from EGBB Birmingham Airport to Birmingham city in the two sims.  In real life, you can see the skyline of England's second largest city from the airport, 3-4 miles away.  In MSFS2024 with the above settings I could too, even if they did shape-shift the closer I got.  In MSFS2020, I was a bit taken aback.  You can't see the tall building of the city until you are almost upon them at my just-on-the-edge of stuttering TLOD settings.  Bit of a surprise... 

 

Edited January 11 by AJZip

[FlyIce]

If you're running TAA at 100, I would strongly suggest you give DLSS Quality or Balanced a try. Overall you'll gain significantly more fps with relatively minor loss of image quality. 

[odourboy]

3 hours ago, odourboy said:

I'll recheck this. I've only done one flight since the update and it wasn't fantastic, but as you suggested, it could have been server related.

Nope. I ran my test scenario and exceeded my 32Gb RAM (by roughly the same amount as prior to the latest patch).

[AJZip]

11 hours ago, FlyIce said:

If you're running TAA at 100, I would strongly suggest you give DLSS Quality or Balanced a try. Overall you'll gain significantly more fps with relatively minor loss of image quality. 

Balanced was certainly inferior on my system/setup visually in the cockpit.  For good measure I'll try it on Quality later today and report back.

[AJZip]

A couple of other settings I am using, for what they are worth.

The Dynamic Settings dropdown shows that I am targeting a frame rate of 30 fps

 

I have the dynamic cache at the fairly low default of 16G.  Again, one that I will experiment with when I get time

 

Last night, I had another flight with the Fenix A320 with the above settings through the Pimax Crystal Light.  I was surprised at a couple of the results:

- no stutters; cockpit visuals sharp

- external view good (at 8000 feet, about the same as in MSFS2020 for which I did a mirror flight)

- internal cockpit view good.  Comparable with MSFS2020

- external view from inside the cockpit.  Shockingly bad.  It is as if they've turned the brightness up as far as it will go and the colour saturation as low as they can get.  Vastly inferior to MSFS2020

- This was a surprise...both MSFS2024 and MSFS2020 smooth as silk throughout but while the FPS of MSFS2020 was running at 35-37, the FPS of MSFS2024 was running at 24-25!  And smooth...

 

I didn't have much time left, but I tried the same settings for a quick flight with the F18 - and yes, much jerkier in MSFS2024 as would be expected at a low FPS with mach1 tight turns... 

Edited Sunday at 10:47 AM by AJZip

[AJZip]

Well, other than the irritations stated above, performance-wise it's still holding up, albeit in a slightly unusual way.

I managed to get BeyondATC working with MSFS2024 (the liveries aren't loaded and so the live traffic wasn't operating) and it worked well with no response delays or any other quirks. 

So I did a 45 minute cross country flight under BATC control in the stock Cessna 172 and all went well from clearance to taxi, takeoff, cruise and landing.  I managed to get the Pimax Play info screen visible (for the life of me I can't remember how you turn that on an off) and - based on that - the flight, that had good visuals and no stutters at a 3556x4210 resolution per eye, was actually running at 22-23fps...with no obvious aberrations!   I can fully understand why it was running at such a low fps - but it beats me why it wasn't a stutter-fest. 

I will repeat the flight this evening in the Fenix A320 - I can't believe that will be anywhere near as forgiving...

[FlyIce]

Are you running PimaxXR in Pimax Play app, and without OXR Toolkit? If so I'm really curious to know if you figured out how to get fps display in PCL. Right now I can only guess the fps in 2020 and 2024 by the feelings - it would be so helpful to see the actual numbers. 

 

[AJZip]

55 minutes ago, FlyIce said:

Are you running PimaxXR in Pimax Play app, and without OXR Toolkit? If so I'm really curious to know if you figured out how to get fps display in PCL. Right now I can only guess the fps in 2020 and 2024 by the feelings - it would be so helpful to see the actual numbers. 

 

To my great irritation, no - I have no idea how to toggle it!  And I can't find how to do it on Google either.  It (the Pimax Play fps panel) just appeared there on the previous flight - but I've just finished a flight in the Fenix A320 and it wasn't there this time 😀            I'm going to ask the question on the Pimax Discord - when I find out I'll pass on the info.

So, to answer your other question, yes - I tried the Pimax OpenXR through Pimax Play this time so no OXR Toolkit needed...but therefore no fps either for this flight.

The results - around a 1.5hour flight in the splendid Fenix A320, and with BeyondATC control all the way through - were pretty good.  I could 'feel' that the fps must have been pretty low, but, to be honest, it was very smooth at almost all times.  It might be just luck at the moment, but the sim really does seem to be very tolerant of low fps.  I think MSFS2020 would have let me know much more firmly that it wasn't happy!

So, actually, the only bad thing was the crazy whitewash treatment of the cockpit glass which spoils the external view from inside the cockpit significantly.  But, from where I started four days ago, I am way, way further forward.  Overall, that was a very satisfactory flight in all other aspects...

[AJZip]

15 hours ago, FlyIce said:

Are you running PimaxXR in Pimax Play app, and without OXR Toolkit? If so I'm really curious to know if you figured out how to get fps display in PCL. Right now I can only guess the fps in 2020 and 2024 by the feelings - it would be so helpful to see the actual numbers. 

 

It's crazy - I cannot find this anywhere at all.  I've spent all morning on it.  I've asked the question on the Pimax Discord but, so far, no answer and so I've raised a Support Ticket.  I'll let you know...assuming that Pimax themselves know  😀

[AJZip]

Clearly, the question about how to turn on or off the VR FPS pop up in the Crystal Light also has the Pimax technical team stumped...no answer yet 😀

 

In the meantime, with my PC and MSFS settings completely unchanged, but with the addition of AutoFPS, I have repeated yesterday's BATC-guided flight of the Fenix A320 but this time using the Quest 3 instead of the Crystal Light.

 

- EGBB to EGCN

- Quest 3; Virtual Desktop; BeyondATC; AutoFPS; MSFS2024

- Fenix's splendid A320

- Other than at the very end of the flight (see bullet point below) the flight itself was just as smooth - no judders, jitters.

- Again, BeyondATC performed exceptionally well

- Visuals:

• pilot's gauges & text, clear and sharp
• copilots gauges & text, less sharp but readable
• External view from cockpit - milky, oversaturated as with the Crystal Light.  Shimmery mid to distant scenery
• Outside view, aircraft sharp and clear; scenery good colours but still quite shimmery at mid to distance.

- FPS  34-45

- Stuttering (sound and visual) ONLY at very end of the flight...5.00pm UK time; 6.00pm North Europe Time (which was the server I was using).  Total coincidence that this would be also the time the gaming cloud would start getting busy on a working day?  (Microsoft nods; we all shake our heads 😉 ).  For good scientific method reasons, I will re-do the flight tomorrow in early afternoon...

 

So some experimenting to do to try to improve the scenery visuals and try to get rid of the shimmer with the Quest 3 settings, but quite encouraging. 

 

The other thing I will do - probably this evening, is to redo the Crystal Light flight but adding AutoFPS (which should improve PFS but will also give me the actual FPS values, assuming that Pimax haven't worked out how their product works yet and let me know how to turn on that pesky VR panel!) 

Edited Monday at 05:58 PM by AJZip