Phil Taylor has had enough! No Blogging or Posting

[bob.bernstein 0]

Within the three threads that have addressed the general issues here, I'd say we've just about completely aired the varied viewpoints. I say that because the latest posts have offered nothing new. Just repeating previous positions.If I'm right, then we're seeing an intriguing dynamic. Why would folks begin repeating previous positions? Is it seen by the posters as a form of voting? Whichever view is expressed most is the "right" one?I doubt any amount of repeating will make people think differently, just make people feel like they belong to a bigger or smaller "team" of like thinking people. If folks change their viewpoints based on that reasoning, its not a legitimate evaluation of ideas but a form of social survival behaviour, kind of a fear based thing...like if I stood alone with my differing opinion, oh my wouldn't that be lonely. :-))So lets review the alternate positions with a bent toward which approach is likely to create a better future. The voices that believe Phil was a giver of gifts ("the hand that feeds us"), not representing the Microsoft business, here out of the love for simming...these voices appear to be concluding that the bashers, the consistent naysayers that never accepted Phil's explainations, these people are bad, they have simply misbehaved as we imagine children doing. They should feel so bad that their behaviour would just simply change. They should change without being understood, they should accept that their viewpoints are invalid.That thinking fails to account for these people feeling violated. I don't believe that you can beat somebody up so much that they begin to feel "good". No that makes them feel worse. I know this is a potential disagreement area. My thinking is based on the idea that people's actions are a reflection on their level of self esteem and or how they feel about their world, so that if you want better behaviour (in a parenting context), then take actions that improve self esteem or reduce their fear, and like magic, the offending behaviours end. I've raised 3 kids as a single dad with full custody, and this has been my method...it seems to have worked. I've never adressed negative behavour as a problem, instead I treat it as a signal that theres a problem. Rather that discuss the negative behaviour itself, I always began to look for what made the child feel fearful. Once that issue was resolved, the behavour did NOT ever need to be addressed, it was resolved remotely.Whether you agree with them or not, people feel outright lied to by Microsoft. You can't make them NOT feel that way through punishment.My ideas previously expressed was to point out the action that WOULD result in an eventual healing of the injured consumers. It requires very difficult, but necessary actions on Microsoft's part. That is admitting the failures of connecting Marketing, and Engineering into a cohesive project that would both break new ground and ALSO still live up to the marketing messages. THis failure is what has turned the hearts dark of some folks in this community. Just telling them to "look in the mirror" doesn't resolve this suspicion that Microsoft is not treating them honestly. Phil did not help these people. The only other strategy that Microsoft can take is to avoid the angry consumer. There is a very lucrative market for their products in the general public. They need to choose between accepting responsibility for dishonest marketing or enjoying positive business profits at the cost of losing the goodwill of being available to the public. They hoped that this wouldn't be the choice...that somehow the the marketing could be forgotten, but that didn't happen (after all its still printed on the box). And admitting dishonesty just isn't an available approach, I suspect.I think we're seeing which path they chose. I don't blame them. Its probably the least pain and most profitable choice.The primary point:Having people on this forum attempting to villify consumers who are feeling decieved by Microsoft serves no purpose but to maintain the negative community energy with no positive outcome.

[N400QW 205]

Bob, well thought out and a good approach with regard to child rearing.Sorry to differ but we are not dealing with children here but rather adults who act as children do....FSX/SP2/DX10 is running well on a majority of systems now and the die is cast with Phils statement that SP2 is Final build for FSX and the adults here need to realize and accept the reality that no amount of whining and moaning, or attacking or flaming, will change those facts.One mark of childish behaviour is to refuse to accept an edict from a parent by throwing little "temper tantrums".What I'm advocating is that adults who are acting in a "childish" manner should stop their "childish" behaviour, accept the facts as they are and "get over it" with regard to real or imagined wrongs.:-)Want it "real as it gets"? Then set about doing what is required to make FSX/SP2/DX10 an enjoyable experience or go back to FS9. Either way, please stop the constant whine over where we all were 1.5 years ago.

[Guest UlfB]

Bob,This must be one of your best posts ever. Excellent :-)Ulf B

[HUSSAR 272]

As I am writing this, directly in front of me on my other LCD I am looking out of the Level D 767 which is flying across the Rockies bound for Montreal out of Vancouver. Outside in the real world the weather is less than desirable.I have ASX activated as well as having the beauty of UTX added over top of FSGenesis. The sim is smooth and the scenery 37,000 feet below is nice. Every once in a while I am handed off to another center via PFE2000 and I look forward to touching down in a few hours.Thanks to MS and all the add-ons dev's I am enjoying my hobby more than ever, not only that my 15 year old son, thanks to flight simming, will be attending ground school this summer with the Air Cadets.Yes I did some complaining early on but I managed to have my questions answered, and when I could have, helped out with other members of this community.Let's not make this community to be what it is like out there in the real world. This should be a place where we can come and enjoy our hobby with one another. If you have a gripe, express yourself, get the answers and learn.Sincerely,

[Guest JIMJAM]

"RE: It seems the viewpoints have been aired "Without any REAL Competition, I do not understand the point of any of the above.MS/Aces/Phil are going to do what they are going to do and we are going to buy it.Time to close this thread or open a dedicated one where people can vent.I want to know when Aerosofts f-16 is being released or read a feel good story about a newbies first flight.This is like Avsim meets TMZ.Enough about Phil's comments which were not even made on Avsim.Plzzzzzzzzzzz Enough already.

[bob.bernstein 0]

Ron, Isn't your idea similar to the messaging that's been ongoing for the last year? If your thinking can create a positive future for this community, wouldn't it already have worked?I don't think my ideas apply only to children. Adults need the same thing, they need to be validated. I find it helps with my employees , and with my girlfriend (if we can still use "boy" and "girl" words in our 50s :-)) Whether my first feeling is disagreement, if I can help folks feel validated, I get the responsivness I seek. Its a lesson that is taught in negotiation classes...understand the opposing viewpoint...in customer service messaging also. Its the fundamental notion behind the overused phrase "the customer is always right". We all know the customers can be "wrong" within the rules of any given contract. The point of the fabled saying is that the strongest value of a customer is experienced when that person feels validated.The issue gets complicated if you have a monopoly over a given marketplace. How hard do you work to assure the customer feel validated? I'm not joking here, these are valid business decisions that must be made.

[Guest UlfB]

>"RE: It seems the viewpoints have been aired ">Without any REAL Competition, I do not understand the point of>any of the above.>MS/Aces/Phil are going to do what they are going to do and we>are going to buy it.>Time to close this thread or open a dedicated one where people>can vent.>I want to know when Aerosofts f-16 is being released or read a>feel good story about a newbies first flight.>This is like Avsim meets TMZ.>Enough about Phil's comments which were not even made on>Avsim.>Plzzzzzzzzzzz Enough already.JIMJAM,I agree that some threads make you feel tired and you don't find them meaningful. But it's like a tv program. You only change the channel if the program is boring or upsetting you, don't you? So why do you post in this thread?Ulf B

[Guest JIMJAM]

It WAS meaningful and I added my 2 cents.But as the above poster stated, I think everyone has had his say and its being rehashed.There is no channel to change too. This has just become static.Make a Aces forum or Phils Place.As the police say, "Move on, Nothing to see here."

[N400QW 205]

Bob, to answer question:"How hard do you work to assure the customer feel validated? I'm not joking here, these are valid business decisions that must be made."No vendor in his right mind sets out to do his customer base harm in any form. Our own business ethic is to produce, test, retest, retest again, issue service releases if required, provide support forums, and in many cases personal telephone support for our products.In short, we attempt to accomplish all of this PRIOR to product release and FOLLOW up wherever possible.With the goal of providing the very best products and the best customer support service we can accomplish we then have to rely on customers to be able to setup their own OS, Hardware, Drivers, FS Versions, Service Packs, Read Documentation, etc.At no time does our "job description" include "validating" a customers personal feelings.... At the end of the day, no 3PD, nor MS, is going to take on the psychological responsibility of "validating" them as if they were children.At some point, adults must accept responsibility for their own hobby choices and how they move forward when things don't turn out exactly as they wish:-)

[bob.bernstein 0]

I think we are agreeing, but our words make it seem like we aren't.This ethic:<< to produce, test, retest, retest again, issue service releases if required, provide support forums, and in many cases personal telephone support for our products....PRIOR to product release and FOLLOW up wherever possible. With the goal of providing the very best products and the best customer support service we can accomplish.>>Illustrates a SUBSTANTIAL level of caring about your customers and their feelings. The element of personal support you offer FURTHER validates them. If Phil had provided a private telephone support for the naysayers, I'll bet things would have gone smoother. Just a guess on my part of course, but I would clearly say that MS has a lot to learn from your company on service. The fact that you have competitors and MS doesn't does factor in, we can't compare one to one, but to think that you and MS are showing equal concern for validating your customer's problems isn't right. Caring about people's feelings isn't equal to doing something uncomfortable, unmanly, or maudlin. You guys are already doing it..B

[N400QW 205]

Thanks Bob. It's only fair to say that we go as far as we can to accomodate folks but do draw the line when it comes to accepting responsibilty for others psychological needs:-)

[JSkorna 137]

Excellent post!Jimhttp://www.hifisim.com/banners/hifi-community-sigbanner.jpghttp://www.hifisim.com/

[Guest D17S]

To disregard the human component of a customer base dismisses a significant business opportunity, providing only to satiate a proprietor's own human component.

[Guest grapesh]

First I went through this post with a nagging feeling of frustration. I feel sorry for Phil, he is a great guy and aviation enthusiast, and he's instrumental in helping community to get FSX working.I was going to say that his post indicated that Microsoft's "Community Participation" project miserably failed, that they should have stood the heat for coming open to the public, etc... but then I thought - NO, they are smart: they actually accomplished their mission - Aces got all feedback from FSX they needed, they probably solidified their feature set and architecture for the vNext by now, so currently there is no point for Phil to be exposed to a constant stream of critics from unhappy users and therefore worsen a product publicity.I don't consider it a conspiracy or anything bad, and I'm very happy if that's true and Aces just said "shut up, that's enough", and went to get us a greater-than-ever vNext. Keep us posted Phil! Cheers,=S.V.=CPU: Intel Core2Duo E4500 2x2.2Ghz, 1GbGPU: nVidia Quadro FX 3400 256 MbOS: WinXP(SP2) FS: FSX(SP2) MP: http://www.FSEconomy.com

[neil0311 366]

>To disregard the human component of a customer base dismisses>a significant business opportunity, providing only to satiate>a proprietor's own human component. Let's just keep in perspective that we're discussing a piece of consumer "gaming" software that retails for between $30 and $50 (USD). To all those who ascribe sinister and conspiracy oriented motives to Microsoft and implicitly to Phil, I'm sorry if this offends, but it sounds like much the same nonesense as can be read on many forums about Microsoft. Either Microsoft is this inept and bungling company that can't write software to save their collective lives and all their products are garbage, or they're a collection of evil geniuses bent of stealing your last $34.95. Do you guys hold the oil change folks on the corner or the local restaurant owner where you had dinner last night to the same standards? You paid them roughly the same amount of money but yet you expect unlimited attention, instant communication, and a perpetual warranty from a commercial software company that builds gaming applications for mass distribution. Isn't there a litte lack of proportionality here, despite all the horrific wrongs like "magic screenies", promised updates, delivered updates that didn't meet expectations, DX10 previews and support, or other real or imagined wrongs perpetuated on the "FSX community" by Aces collectively or individually? Just some observations from someone who is quite familiar with software development and works for a very large software company.