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lcseale53

You there Geof....or any Baron drivers?

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I just got a pretty remarkable offer on a 2000 Baron from a friend of mine who is an instructor at a flight school in West Virginia. I'm giving serious consideration to selling off the old 206 and stepping up to the twin to haul the family around and was wondering if anyone could give me some pros and cons of the Baron.

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I love the baron. It is a solid airplane with really docile characteristics. The only problem is now you have double the powerplant systems to pay for and the added fuel.

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That is probably the biggest downside from my perspective. I have been coaching the family around in a 206 for the last several years, and one of the biggest pros is that I can still have a six-place with a rather incredible payload, still get up to about 145 in cruise, and I only have one engine to pay for. I am wondering if the extra fuel is worth the leg room. But, what has me interested is the fact that the Baron can haul six comfortably, whereas the aft two seats in the 206 are just too tight for the average adult. The vast majority of my flying is done in Florida, which means that I do not have a need for the extra altitude. I am mostly concerned about passenger comfort and a bit more luggage room. Normally I wouldn't even consider the topic given how much I have fallen in love with the 206, but I would hate to pass on a great offer.

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Is a C210 much the same way as a C206 in the back two seats? Our flying club has one but I've never actually flown it yet.

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Sorry-I was out flying to Iowa and back today-got my last state in of my goal in landing in all the continental US states!I love the Baron-mine is a B55. I can take 4 over faa sized adults and all the bags needed for a three week trip and go (870 lbs with full fuel/4.5 hours)or 4 adults and two kids. The two engines, two of lots of other things give a nice redundancy. If you really want to take six I'd stay with a B58-the 55 are probably not all that much better than your 206.Yes the two engines eat more gas, but I have no worries going over the Great lakes like I did today, or over hostile territory. Going a straight line over the such where in a single I would have gone around is a big time saver. Having boots and deice just in case is very nice.The only real downside is 28-30 gallons/hr and the double maintanence. The good part is 186 knts. true with the B55. I can beat the airlines in cost and time much of the time. e.g. last week I flew from north of Detroit to Baltimore. 2 hour flight one way in my plane, cost including fuel and hourly fixed cost $360. I flew 3 adults or at a cost of $120 a person. Got us there flight time only a little more than a commercial and without the hassle of airport check in and security-a huge time savings. A commercial per person would have cost much more-and the time would have been at least twice. I went from sole ownership of a Debonair to a 3 partnership in the twin. I actually fly cheaper than I did with the single, and have much more utility.I've flown from Michigan to New Orleans and back in one day and to the west coast ditto-the speed really is nice-you can't ever go too fast.I had an interesting situation a few years ago right after putting on two new engines when a starter broke down in Missouri on one of my down to Baton Rouge and back in the same day trips.I ended up having to fly a rented c172 home. If I recall it took almost 6 hours and required a fuel stop-7 hours total time. If I recall a c172 burns about 9-10 gallons hour so call it 60 gallons.When we went to pick up the Baron the same flight took 2:30 and no stop. Burning 28/hr that is 70 gallons.So I think you have to take the speed equation into the gas equation too-and though the twin will be more expensive it is certainly not 2x as.7 hour flight and 60 gallons vs. 2:30 flight and 70 gallons-perhaps not so bad? I sure enjoyed the Baron one more.Then there are all the cool trips you can do with such a machine as I document on my webpage-nothing beats that!Only real negative for me is I get less time in my logbook than I used to because I get everywhere faster!Anyway-best thing is go fly one and see what you think. Look forward to hearing about it and how you come out.You might want to take a look at:www.beechtalk.comJeff who runs the site used to be an avid simmer. I gave him a flight in my Debonair before he was a pilot and now he is a Baron driver.GeofaMy blog:http://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

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I think the back two are about the same in both birds. Not bad for the kids, but not too pleasent for those of us with a little meat on the bones.

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Thanks for all of that Geof. I am heading up to Elkins on Friday to bring it home for a few weeks and run it through the ropes. I will keep both of you in mind in case any questions arise. I am burning about 15-18 gph in the 206 at 145 IAS @ 5,000-8,000 ft. I will not be unhappy to burn a little more fuel if it gets me to point B quicker, and most importantly, more comfortably for others. I do have one concern though. Right now I am able to go just about anywhere I want. How much extra concrete does the Baron need?

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Imho it really becomes a matter of what you are comfortable with.Gross weight, hot day, and a possible engine failure?Or light on fuel and payload, cool day and good factor if an engine quits.Me-I am conservative and prefer at least 4000 ft. in general-more if at full gross on a summer day but it can be done with less.Last summer I was planning to go to Catalina Island but with a 3000 ft. runway,1602 alt., and a plane at full gross I decided to go to Long Beach, enjoy the long runways and take the ferry over.I am a chicken though....GeofaMy blog:http://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

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I've never seen a chicken flying a plane....let's just call you safe. I like to play it safe too, especially with my family onboard.Anywho....I am a bit concerned about losing out on some of my favorite stops. For example, I have some friends at the Fantasy of Flight Museum in Polk City that I like to visit every so often. There is a 5,000 ft grass runway, but during the spring only 3,000 ft of it is accessible. I have also grown fond of a few short strips stretching from St. Augustine down to Cocoa Beach and over to Ocala.I wish I could afford to keep the 206 if I got the Baron and have the best of both worlds.....this will be a toughy.Is there a retro conversion for the G1000 for the Baron? I think I would miss that most of all.

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The retros are the Aspen and the new Garmin and king units as far as I know.You might want to look into a partnership in the Baron-that way keep your 206 and use the Baron for the big trips with the fam.It really is best for long xcountries where you want to get somewhere fast in comfort and style. It is the best way to explore the USA inho.I used to take my Debonair into a 2800 ft. grass strip to visit my son at school (y88) and was based at a strip (3da) with 2500' and trees on either end.I wouldn't do grass or a small strip like that in the Baron-though I have been told Baron's land at 3da.If I recall the Baron has the best single engine climb rate of any light twin. However, the bad news is at full gross on a hot day let alone a high airport it may be extremely low to nill. Always decisions to be made. GeofaMy blog:http://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

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I'm definitely not going to argue that the Baron can get me "there" quicker, more comfortably (for the pax), and with more sky below me if need ever be.Not sure if a share would be suitable for me or not. Without publicly getting too personal, I really can not afford both, and it would be nice not to have to get rid of the 206....I think some real sentimental value is building up in that one. On the other hand, I had a very bad experience with a 1/3 share in a 150 several years ago which left a bad taste in my mouth. For the deal I am getting, that is assuming I take the offer, I think I might just prefer to own this one outright. You were talking about touring the U.S., actually I've followed a lot of your posts and comparison screenshots and noticed that you are no stranger to exploring. I have pretty much covered Florida, Ohio, and New Mexico, but I would love to see more of the U.S. from a perspective other than FL300. I'm going to take off in the morning for West Virginia to go get a closer look, and if I like what I see I'll bring it back home on Saturday and spend a few weeks with it. Perhaps I can post some pictures in the RW screenshots forum for you to take a peak at. Thanks for all the help. I'll come back here Saturday night and talk about my trip back....probably with a lot more question.

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Love the Baron performance wise, it's like a sports car. But its ergonomics is atrocious. For some reason Beechcraft decided to swap the position of the pitch and power levers and the gear and flap levers to conventional set up. As a result, been a few wheels up on the tarmac. That's why Baron instructors will teach special after takeoff checks specific to the Baron, e.g. "flaps identified, then confirmed, then select up". Apart from that, best light twin out there.

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Jeremy,I own a 1967 206 with a 300 hp Continental IO520, but I have nowhere near the fuel burn as you. At 8,000 feet I'll true out around 150 mph burning about 11 gph. Some years ago we used the plane for mapping photography and at 12,000-14,000' we saw typically 9-10 gph. You are absolutely correct about the utility of the 206. Mine has an empty weight of 1,900 pounds which leaves 1,700 pounds for payload, and with 84 gallons of fuel on board I can still load 1,200 pounds in the cabin. We have a private grass strip a few hours from Lakeland, and one of the approaches is over an 80 foot tree-line at the edge of the runway. At 95 degrees and a density altitude of probably 3-4,000' I'm over the trees, on the ground and stopped in 1500 ft. Take-off roll with full fuel, baggage and two on board is about 450'. It's an older plane but its rock solid and will haul just about anything you can shut the doors on - and stay within the weight and balance envelope.All that said, though - on those rare occasions when blessed with a substantial tailwind (50 knots or so), a real appreciation for those 185 knot speeds develops rather quickly. Good luck with your decision.Leon

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Hi Leon,That is a pretty notable difference in fuel burn. I suspect the difference might be that I am running the IO-540 and the CC310 air conditioning and climate control system. I can usually get my burn down to about 14 above 8,000, but that is rare since the vast majority of my flying is 5-8,000 Atlantic to Gulf and vise versa. It is troubling that a 2003 206 is that far off of a 1967, but it has been that way since I bought it, and through 4 annuals now.I made it up here at about 3:00 this afternoon and will be heading back in the morning. I got a chance to take the Baron for a few laps around the pattern with my friend as safety. I'm sure glad he was there because it takes a bit of getting used to remembering to bring the legs up, and even more importantly, back down again. Once I got the hang of it I started getting a lot more comfortable thanks to G.U.M.P.I will have to admit that Geof was right about falling in love with that bird. My main focus is more for my pax than me, and I am confident that they will be much happier. Still not sure about having to get rid of my baby (the 206 that is), but I am loving the Baron.

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The logic was so the power quad would be usable by both the copilot and pilot.Since I have owned a Debonair before the Baron with the same arrangement and the only retractable's I have ever owned, no problem for me-though I did train on a Dutchess.In some ways though I find it more logical-put the gear further away where you are less likely to push it by accident.Agree though-special attention needed when coming from another aircraft with opposite situation.GeofaMy blog:http://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

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Excellent shots as always Geof. I saw that there was someone in the screenshots forum that goes by the name rightseat, as opposed to my login of rightseater. I spent five minutes looking at that post trying to remember writing it until I noticed his signature at the bottom. I'll take that chug of beer now....it has been a long, long day. I had to stop in Savannah because my MFD started flickering like crazy. It was like trying to use a G1000 in FSX with 5 FPS. I have been having a problem with some cord retainers slicing through the heat shrink on the G1000 lately, and had it redone in Flagler a few weeks ago. I was lucky enough to have found an authorized dealer in Savannah through the FBO. That held me up about two hours and put an unpleasent dent in my wallet, but the rest of the flight was great. I'm heading back in the morning with a stop in Greenville, NC. I just couldn't pass up the opportunity to go to a Piggly Wiggly. I'm going to try to get in before the tower goes home.

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Made it back safe and sound. I've got to admit that the Baron is a real treat to fly. Going back, once again, to the fact that my pax are my primary concern, the Baron got rave reviews from everyone. I did have one complaint about the low wings blocking an otherwise beautiful view Fernandina Beach coming through Jacksonville, but the leg room more than made up for it from what I heard. A few things took some getting used to, like having two engines to deal with. I was quick to the checklist though, which kept me in line for most of the flight. It took me some time to get the hang of making adjustments to each engine individually, but the resulting increase in airspeed, smoother flight, and surprisingly quiet ride for having two engines next to my ears was worth the effort. I've got it tied down at KSGJ right now, and will be going back in the morning for a trip down to Tampa to have it inspected.

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Is it a B55 or B58? The B55 blocks more of the downward view than the B58-just curious....but then there is the upward view which is unblocked :lolGood luck on the pre buy!GeofaMy blog:http://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

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It's a B58. As for the blocked view, it was only because I had turned out over the ocean to line up with the 180 inbound into the SGJ TVOR and then came back towards St. John's for rwy 13. Personally, I was surprised with how great the view was in front of the wing. I would rarely be looking 90 degrees to my left and straight down unless I was running a tight pattern, like at Green Cove. All in all, I can think of a total of zero complaints.....that is until tomorow morning when I get to fill er up.

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Sounds great-good luck!You may want to invest in the Voyager softwre which shows gas prices on a moving map with daily updates or make a regular visit to 100ll.com or airnav.com. for your trips.I never used to do it with my single but sure do now for my stops.Just found out my local airport gives a .30/gal discount for cash-with all that cash in the billfold though expect to sit quite a bit higher :-lolGeofaMy blog:http://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

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Goef, or anyone else....have you ever experienced an RMI needle reading backwards? On my way back to SGJ this evening the VOR needle was locked on to the TVOR until about 20 nm out, than it flipped in the exact opposite direction. I checked the audio Morse to make sure another VOR wasn't bleeding through, double and triple checked to make sure the NAV frequency hadn't changed for some reason, and than about 10 nm out it started working again. It wasn't any notable problem because I was using the GPS and the VOR on the HSI both working fine, but just thought I'd ask.Also, a very promising experience I had today was a moderate crosswind landing with some light shears. The 206 always handled them well, but the Baron was magnificant. Not as much drifting after coming out of the slip.

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Haven't experienced the rmi backwards-sounds like there may be a problem there-but since a good number of vor's are going to be decommissioned in the next few years wouldn't worry too much if your gps is working fine -probably not worth a repair on the rmi.I find landing's much easier in the Baron/Bonanza-especially with high winds- the low wing vs. a high wing debate-I've done up to 45 knts. in the low wing-did a 90 degree xwind gusting to 28 a few weeks ago-wouldn't try that with a Cessna. Also the Baron is much heavier (5100 lbs. with full fuel in my case)-possibly more than the your Cessna-much more stability. I used to brag that is was not possible to do a bad landing with my Debonair-the Baron is pretty much the same.Again, Beech's- lean,mean, travelling machines-and like luxury cars vs. economy cars! (imho) :-)GeofaMy blog:http://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

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