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Guest luissa

airport elevation. i'm missing a step!

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HiI am making an afcad for Kai Tak (Hong Kong Old vhhx) airport for the Hong Kong 2004 scenery.At first all AI were sunk under the airport, but I decompiled the default airport .bgl file and inserted the correct elevation.Now the departing AI are on the tarmac, but landing aircraft still sink under the tarmac.I have tried adjusting the default airport (both the airport data and the runway data) and the afcad2 file to all sorts of elevations, but landing AI still insist on sinking under the airport.I've tried decompiling the HK2004 scenery .bgl's, but the all come up as invalid facility files which can't be decompiled.Any ideas what other elevation data I should be adjusting?RegardsGraeme

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Hello Graeme,That is a very interesting solution that Peter discovered, although I am not sure that I understand it completely.Perhaps there is another possibility. As Lee Swordy mentions in the AFCAD doumentation, an AFCAD file will not change the airport default altitude. For this to work, the Flight Simulator Development Team will need to add a Delete Altitude command for the Airport section.You did the next best thing, which is to decompile the AP file and correct the altitude there. This changes the altitude of only part of the airport, though.The runway altitude is not included in this file, but in the corresponding FL (FLATTEN, I suppose) file. You can also decompile this and modify that altitude (and the FS Team might consider a Delete Flatten command as well, which would be very helpful.)Supposedly, it is possible to use a Flatten switch (either the old Area 16N or the newer L/WM flatten), but I have not yet been able to make those work correctly. Steve Greenwood provides utilities for this, although you can also use any scenery design program if you wish.Best regards.Luis

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Peters solution, which is to put a copy of the same afcad into the scenery/world/scenery directory, tricks the sim into thinking this is the default scenery height. Very clever..and it absolutely does work. I had to use this trick to add AI to a number of Georender airports.Just follow it step by step and it does work.Eric

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Excellent thanks.Now how do I get the AI to take the proper famous approach to runway 13!?! I have read it can't be done. Not sure if this is still the caseOne final issue that I ignored at first. The front wheel of the AI aircraft is perfectly on the tarmac but the rear wheels are slightly in the air!RegardsGraeme

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Thank you, Eric. I understood what Peter was recommending, but not exactly how it is supposed to work.You say that it "tricks" the game into using the new AFCAD file, but what exactly does that mean? How does one go about tricking the scenery engine? It sounds, rather, as if this method is creating a conflict between the default AP file and the new AFACD file. Conflicts are never a good thing, particularly in Flight Simulator, so this all sounds very suspect to me.Also, Peter gives an explanation of what he claims is happening within the simulator while all this is going on. I have read many of the Microsoft technical documents, though certainly not all, and have never come across such a description of the inner workings of FS. So, I wonder how Peter came up with it all.On the other hand, we know that the FL file contains the airport flatten with the elevation, and it is easy enough to modify and recompile this file. Here is a modification of the island of Saba (pron. say'-bah) that came without mesh. The default airport is set to an elevation of about 15 feet when it should be 104 feet.http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/102029.gifhttp://forums.avsim.net/user_files/102030.gifWithout modifying the FL file, the new airport would wind up in an ugly 90-foot deep trench on that plateau.Modifying the FL file and distributing it is NOT the same as removing some parts of the HP file and distributing that, because if the scenery is ever uninstalled, the FL still contains information for that airport.Anyway, while I do not doubt that you are getting results with Peter's method, perhaps it would be better for the creators of the Georender scenery to approach this problem differently, or even to just not attempt to change the elevation of the default airport scenery, if they do not want to distribute modified FL files.Best regards.Luis

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Guest luissa

Edited - after writing this I remember that I addressed this question in the past. Searching the forum I found this:http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho..._id=15891&page=Hello all,This is very interesting. Here is my experience on this. When I, and friend, designed "Porto Santo" airport (LPPS) we need to correct to altitude of the default runway. The default was 110 m and we would like to bring it down to 100 m. We did not make the runway with AFACD. We did it with the "FS2002 SCASM runway command". So for the visual scenery;:1) we made a flat polygon around the airport with an altitude of 100m2) we made the runway with an altitude of 100mThen we used AFCAD to define the trafic paths. We made an LPPS_AFCAD.BGL with everyting related to altitude equal to 100 meters. This LPPS_AFCAD.BGL was placed in the local scenery folder.Everyting was almost fine. We could land at LPPS with our aircraft arriving nicely with the wheels on the ground as other incoming AI aircraft. The only problem was when we used "GoTo Airport". When we get there were 2 or 3 AIs where floating 10 meters in the air!!!Now that I read Peter's trick I understand the problem completely and I see that there is a simpler solution than the one we found at the time. In fact we knew that those floating aircrafts were due to the default AFCAD.BGL (the only place were the 110m still existed). So we opened the default AFCAD with an hex editor and we tried to change the default altitude of the default AFCAD.BGL. We were lucky. But today I see that I could simply copy the local LPPS_AFCAD.BGL to the default folder and that was it!Regards and an Happy New Year to all readers of this forum!Luis

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I tried putting a duplicate afcad in the scenery/world/scenery folder, but the landing AI still sank into the ground. I also tried putting it in the HK2004 addon scenery folder (which is the one I am interested in) but this did not work either.Where can I find the corresponding FL file (for Hong Kong Old) so I can try adjusting the elevation in there?Thanks for the advice so far.RegardsGraeme

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Guest luissa

Hello,I do not know if YOUR aircraft also sinks. The previous observation of one wheel OK and other NOT, is also very strange. In order to locate the flatten consider this:- if you place a flatten polygon which "contains" (is larger than) the default flatten, then you do not need to edit the FLXXX.BGL file. Just make a flat polygon and place it on your local SCENERY folder.In order to locate the FLXXXX for your region, may be this helps:Default LWM files for Western Europe, for example, are located in the folder:C:Program FilesMicrosoft GamesFlight Simulator 9SceneryEurwSceneryDifferent regions of the world will be located in different folders like Eure for Eastern Europe, Afri for Africa, Name for North America (East part) and so on.Inside these folders you have several files. The following files are LWM files:FL9XXYY0.BGL - these files refer to flatten polygons HP9XXYY0.BGL - these files refer to hydro polygons (and/or hydro area fills) All LWM files cover a complete LOD5 square. The XX and YY appearing in the filename refer to the X and Y coordinates of the LOD5 square to which the file refers to. In order to know which file applies for a given location you look to the LOD5 coordinates that appear in the status bar when you have the mouse in the desired position. In the south of Portugal, for example, the satusus bar shows LOD5 45 18. Therefore if you want to load the hydro LWM data for that region you look for the file HP945180.BGL. Note that there is a leading 9 and a trailing 0 in the sequence of digits that define the location.Regards, Luis

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HiI'd found the FL file, but can't decompile it with Alessandro Antanini's bglxml, found here on avsim. It says there is no valid facility data. I'll try emailing flightsoft too, as they are the distributors for HK2004, to see what they can suggest.I'm going to go back to flying for a while!By the way, I have since noticed the 'leaning forward' AI I have are restricted to a certain make and not all AI, so I'll have a word with the creators.Graeme

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Hi Luis.The problem seem to be that the aprons default to the elevation of the first encountered instance of an airport. Duplicate files may be the answer, as Peter found. I made a new project folder called "AFCAD_Elevation_Corrections" with a "scenery" subfolder. Copies of AFCADS for the purpose of correcting elevations can be placed there. The project folder can then be added in the Scenery Library, and moved down under the regional scenery folders in the Library List:http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/102088.jpgNote that I also placed the FS_USGS landclass Folder below the regional scenery folders... there is a problem with landclass display that means they should be below the regional sceneries ( loaded before LWMs and VTPs ).This folder setup is a bit neater than throwing the correcting AFCADS into the 'WorldScenery' folder.The airport background still needs a flatten ( LWM or Area16n SCASM ) to the correct height. The worst of this work-around is that if you get rid of the AFCAD, you must remember to get rid of the correction as well!!!Once again, I plead with the FS design team to insure local addon scenery have a priority over mesh and flattens, allowing us to return a small area to the mesh-state regardless of the previously loaded LWM ( and airport ) elevations.Dick

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Graeme, I do not advise modfiying the default files, but since you are already doing this, then please get Jim Keir's LWMViewer, as it will make it all very easy.Thank you for testing this, Dick. This entire situation seems a real mess, but at least keeping third-party files out of the World/Scenery folder is somewhat better.I have been giving some thought to all this business of releasing scenery with modified hyp files. You and I see all the pitfalls, and every week there is at least one user who posts a sorry story of squared-off coasts or shorelines far from land.What most aircraft or scenery designers do not take into account is that a great number of users download a package only to take a quick look, maybe to fly around a little, and then delete it. The excellent packages like Holger's scenery are rarely removed (although he has gotten some of those as well), but many other packages of lesser quality have a shorter life and are destined to be uninstalled.Since I have not yet seen this kind of scenery modification that includes a clear and comprehensible description of the problem for the user, explaining why they should particularly remember what was changed in the default files, it is not surprising that there should be problems. And there will always be problems with this type of modification.And changing the FL files will just lead to the same problems. Even if one places a duplicate AFCAD file as above, the airport flatten in the FL file will not reflect this modification.We can only hope that our New Year's present from the Flight Simulator Team will be some way to override or exclude all the elements of terrain, in the same way that we can do this with objects. It is already possible to do so with much of the terrain, such as VTP lines that can be excluded, or L/WM that can be covered with another (except for the flatten, of course.)Very best wishes to all for the New Year, much health and prosperity to all.Best regards.Luis

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Before I forget, let me just mention that Jacky Brouze has repented and is once again offering his wonderful utilities to the general community. Un grand merci, Jacky! Although I certainly understand why he was so upset.Anyway, try his JABBGL - this very easy to use program allows for modifying the altitude in the default AP files.Best regards.Luis

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Guest vlada stoje

Hi all,Regards and a Happy New Year to all readers of these avsim forums and also the effective warning systems against the tsunami for all people living around the oceansVlada Stoje

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HiThanks for help so far. I'm getting a bit confussed now, so to recap here is what I have tried, and the landing AI still sink.1. Placing duplicate afcad in scenery/world/scenery2. Placing duplicate afcad in the offending add-on scenery folder3. placing duplicate afcad in a new folder scenery/corrected_elevations/scenery, and setting this below the default scenerys in the scenery library4. Elevation of runway and airport have been reset in the APxxxxxx.bgl file (This successful placed departing AI at the correct elevation)I have downloaded LWMviewer, and it shows 2 additional files effecting the area, the FLxxxxxx.bgl and the ABxxxxxx.bgl. Trouble for me is I don't understand the data it exports as there is nothing that obviously says elevation. Is there a tutorial somewhere for deciphering the code that lwmviewer creates?Here is the data for the cell from the FL file that effects my area;; Start of cell 627 x 192 dataCELLSTART_000001 label wordCellID_000001 EQU LWMCellID 0, 0, _Transparent_, 627, 192 LWMDataAreaDrawPolygons 1,_Flatten_,1,11,5 LWMPoly3 4, 0, _Water_, 15, 30, 15, 30 LWMPoint3 64, 136, 0 LWMPoint3 73, 110, 0 LWMPoint3 255, 196, 0 LWMPoint3 255, 226, 0 LWMDataAreaDrawPolygons 1,_Flatten_,1,12,5 LWMPoly3 4, 0, _Water_, 15, 30, 15, 30 LWMPoint3 1, 226, 0 LWMPoint3 1, 196, 0 LWMPoint3 126, 255, 0 LWMPoint3 62, 255, 0 LWMDataAreaDrawPolygons 1,_Flatten_,1,12,6 LWMPoly3 4, 0, _Water_, 15, 30, 15, 30 LWMPoint3 62, 1, 0 LWMPoint3 126, 1, 0 LWMPoint3 134, 5, 0 LWMPoint3 126, 31, 0 LWMDataAreaDrawPolygons 1,_Flatten_,1,19,15 LWMPoly3 8, 0, _Water_, 0, 0, 0, 0 LWMPoint3 211, 95, 0 LWMPoint3 241, 134, 0 LWMPoint3 241, 97, 0 LWMPoint3 230, 65, 0 LWMPoint3 255, 51, 0 LWMPoint3 255, 255, 0 LWMPoint3 132, 255, 0 LWMPoint3 114, 231, 0 LWMDataAreaDrawPolygons 1,_Flatten_,1,20,14 LWMPoly3 4, 0, _Water_, 0, 0, 0, 0 LWMPoint3 43, 249, 0 LWMPoint3 81, 233, 0 LWMPoint3 95, 255, 0 LWMPoint3 44, 255, 0 LWMDataAreaDrawPolygons 1,_Flatten_,1,20,15 LWMPoly3 11, 0, _Water_, 0, 0, 0, 0 LWMPoint3 48, 24, 0 LWMPoint3 44, 1, 0 LWMPoint3 95, 1, 0 LWMPoint3 97, 4, 0 LWMPoint3 100, 174, 0 LWMPoint3 57, 228, 0 LWMPoint3 29, 195, 0 LWMPoint3 17, 250, 0 LWMPoint3 23, 255, 0 LWMPoint3 1, 255, 0 LWMPoint3 1, 51, 0 LWMDataAreaDrawPolygons 1,_Flatten_,1,0,16 LWMPoly3 4, 0, _Water_, 5, 101, 5, 101 LWMPoint3 1, 216, 0 LWMPoint3 255, 107, 0 LWMPoint3 255, 255, 0 LWMPoint3 1, 255, 0 LWMDataAreaDrawPolygons 1,_Flatten_,1,1,16 LWMPoly3 8, 0, _Water_, 5, 101, 5, 101 LWMPoint3 255, 83, 0 LWMPoint3 255, 255, 0 LWMPoint3 1, 255, 0 LWMPoint3 1, 107, 0 LWMPoint3 223, 11, 0 LWMPoint3 232, 14, 0 LWMPoint3 237, 22, 0 LWMPoint3 253, 83, 0 LWMDataAreaFill1x1 0, _Flatten_, 1, 0, 17 LWMDataAreaHeight 5, 101 LWMDataAreaFill1x1 0, _Flatten_, 1, 1, 17 LWMDataAreaHeight 5, 101 LWMDataAreaDrawPolygons 1,_Flatten_,1,2,16 LWMPoly3 11, 0, _Water_, 5, 101, 5, 101 LWMPoint3 7, 84, 0 LWMPoint3 142, 41, 0 LWMPoint3 155, 26, 0 LWMPoint3 172, 27, 0 LWMPoint3 176, 69, 0 LWMPoint3 166, 81, 0 LWMPoint3 152, 106, 0 LWMPoint3 140, 186, 0 LWMPoint3 100, 255, 0 LWMPoint3 1, 255, 0 LWMPoint3 1, 83, 0 LWMDataAreaDrawPolygons 1,_Flatten_,1,2,17 LWMPoly3 9, 0, _Water_, 5, 101, 5, 101 LWMPoint3 72, 49, 0 LWMPoint3 59, 105, 0 LWMPoint3 55, 179, 0 LWMPoint3 70, 224, 0 LWMPoint3 43, 244, 0 LWMPoint3 30, 255, 0 LWMPoint3 1, 255, 0 LWMPoint3 1, 1, 0 LWMPoint3 100, 1, 0 LWMDataAreaDrawPolygons 1,_Flatten_,1,0,18 LWMPoly3 8, 0, _Water_, 5, 101, 5, 101 LWMPoint3 173, 155, 0 LWMPoint3 125, 153, 0 LWMPoint3 120, 160, 0 LWMPoint3 57, 157, 0 LWMPoint3 1, 161, 0 LWMPoint3 1, 1, 0 LWMPoint3 255, 1, 0 LWMPoint3 255, 186, 0 LWMDataAreaDrawPolygons 1,_Flatten_,1,1,18 LWMPoly3 6, 0, _Water_, 5, 101, 5, 101 LWMPoint3 255, 224, 0 LWMPoint3 229, 255, 0 LWMPoint3 186, 255, 0 LWMPoint3 1, 186, 0 LWMPoint3 1, 1, 0 LWMPoint3 255, 1, 0 LWMDataAreaDrawPolygons 1,_Flatten_,1,1,19 LWMPoly3 3, 0, _Water_, 5, 101, 5, 101 LWMPoint3 219, 13, 0 LWMPoint3 186, 1, 0 LWMPoint3 229, 1, 0 LWMDataAreaDrawPolygons 1,_Flatten_,1,2,18 LWMPoly3 7, 0, _Water_, 5, 101, 5, 101 LWMPoint3 20, 10, 0 LWMPoint3 17, 60, 0 LWMPoint3 28, 124, 0 LWMPoint3 46, 169, 0 LWMPoint3 1, 224, 0 LWMPoint3 1, 1, 0 LWMPoint3 30, 1, 0 LWMDataAreaDrawPolygons 1,_Flatten_,1,19,16 LWMPoly3 4, 0, _Water_, 0, 0, 0, 0 LWMPoint3 194, 80, 0 LWMPoint3 132, 1, 0 LWMPoint3 255, 1, 0 LWMPoint3 255, 152, 0 LWMDataAreaDrawPolygons 1,_Flatten_,1,20,16 LWMPoly3 12, 0, _Water_, 0, 0, 0, 0 LWMPoint3 46, 19, 0 LWMPoint3 63, 14, 0 LWMPoint3 118, 78, 0 LWMPoint3 179, 169, 0 LWMPoint3 174, 180, 0 LWMPoint3 215, 237, 0 LWMPoint3 201, 255, 0 LWMPoint3 201, 255, 0 LWMPoint3 87, 255, 0 LWMPoint3 1, 152, 0 LWMPoint3 1, 1, 0 LWMPoint3 23, 1, 0 LWMDataAreaDrawPolygons 1,_Flatten_,1,20,17 LWMPoly3 6, 0, _Water_, 0, 0, 0, 0 LWMPoint3 181, 28, 0 LWMPoint3 220, 75, 0 LWMPoint3 255, 88, 0 LWMPoint3 255, 201, 0 LWMPoint3 87, 1, 0 LWMPoint3 201, 1, 0 LWMDataAreaDrawPolygons 1,_Flatten_,1,21,17 LWMPoly3 8, 0, _Water_, 0, 0, 0, 0 LWMPoint3 1, 88, 0 LWMPoint3 5, 91, 0 LWMPoint3 26, 115, 0 LWMPoint3 25, 146, 0 LWMPoint3 60, 187, 0 LWMPoint3 27, 232, 0 LWMPoint3 1, 201, 0 LWMPoint3 1, 88, 0CELLEND_000001 label word; End of cell 627 x 192 dataI can see the part;LWMDataAreaFill1x1 0, _Flatten_, 1, 0, 17 LWMDataAreaHeight 5, 101 LWMDataAreaFill1x1 0, _Flatten_, 1, 1, 17 LWMDataAreaHeight 5, 101but as the DataAreaHeight does not have '0' for the height (which is what it is) then I am a bit stumped! Happy new year!RegardsGraeme

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Hello Graeme,This whole thing is a real mess and this is a good time to set it all out clearly so that others do not fall into the same trap.A number of files contain airport information: - AP: this has all the default airport including the reference altitudes for the airport and for the runways. These files are located in the regional folders in the Scenery directory; - FL: this file contains a flatten for the airport. This flatten polygon is the same size and shape as the airport background (the skirting or grass that underlies the airport) and ensures that the area is perfectly flat. These files are also in the regional folders along with the AP files.The altitudes in the AP and FL files are the same, except in the case of some wayward error.AFCAD files are a means of deleting some of the default airport information in the AP files and substituting other elements (runways, aprons, taxiways, parking, etc.)While there are numerous commands for deleting airport elements (see the BGLComp SDK for details), there is no Delete Altitude command. So, an AFCAD file cannot delete the reference altitude of the AP file and substitute another.Peter's somewhat convoluted solution is to place a copy of the AFCAD file in the World/Scenery folder. This folder has higher priority in the scenery library than the regional folders and is therefore read before the AP files. This will certainly work, but it is hard to understand why anyone would choose such a work-around, as the problem can be dealt with more easily.Let's examine Peter's solution and the consequences: 1. There is a copy of the AFCAD file in the highest priority World/Scenery folder. It deletes the previous airport (except that there is no previous airport!), and creates a new airport at the correct reference altitude; 2. The AP file in the regional folder is read next. It contains the default airport that is drawn over the AFCAD file in the World/Scenery folder. In addition, it has the unwanted reference altitude that is read by Flight Simulator as well; 3. The AFCAD file in the local scenery folder is then read. It deletes the previous airport (both of them - the default and the first instance of the AFCAD file, but not the reference altitudes) and draws the new airport.Since AFCAD cannot delete the reference altitude, the first instance of the AFCAD file has established this value. BUT, the AP file has also been read and it has a different altitude. Is this a conflict between these two altitudes? Does Flight Simulator only read the first instance of altitudes and disregard the rest? Unless Peter or someone has demonstrated this, then much testing needs to be done.As you can see, a mess and ripe for problems of all sorts.Consider the alternatives: 1. If all you want is to place the AFCAD file in a higher priority, there is no need to place a duplicate in the World/Scenery folder. Simply create a folder for your AFCAD, as Dick suggests, and declare it at a higher priority than the regional folders. But, this seems unnecessarily complex; 2. Or, do as you did. Decompile the AP and correct the altitude. Problem solved. Jacky has made it even easier with his JABBgl - no need to decompile and recompile the AP file at all.However, this is not your problem. You have already corrected the AP file's altitude, so it is useless for you to start placing duplicate AFCAD file throughout the FS directory structure.Please delete all your duplicate AFCAD files.The problem is that there are 2 different places where airport altitude can be found: the AP file and the FL file. You must now correct the airport flatten polygon.As I mentioned, you can use any scenery design program to do this, although Steve Greenwood has provided a couple of utilities that allow doing this very easily.I am somewhat lazy and do not like slewing around in FS, so I just decompiled the FL file and changed the values there. But, this is not the most recommended method. Instead, it is probably better and easier to make a new flatten polygon with the correct altitude.Just for your information, however, the FL file, like all those terrain files, is broken up into sections. Every Cell contains the Areas that are modified within it, so you must know the Cell and Area coordinates of your flatten polygon. Jim's great Map Viewer, LWMView, will give you all this and more, and so will Dick's TCalc.Within the Cell section, you will find something like this:LWMDataAreaDrawPolygons 1,_Flatten_,1,1,18LWMPoly3 6, 0, _Water_, 5, 101, 5, 101LWMPoint3 255, 224, 0LWMPoint3 229, 255, 0LWMPoint3 186, 255, 0LWMPoint3 1, 186, 0LWMPoint3 1, 1, 0LWMPoint3 255, 1, 0The last two numbers of the first line are the Area coordinates.The second line contains the height information. Since this is a LWMPoly3, it can (and does) have multiple elevation values, but since it is meant to flatten the terrain to a level, they are the same.The elevation in this case is 5,101. It appears twice. The first number is a whole integer and represents meters (metres). The second number is a fraction and represents a 128th of a meter. Pull out your trusty Windows Calculator, divide 101 by 128, and you get .789 meters. So, total elevation for this flatten is 5.789 metres.To enter the correct elevation, replace the first number with the whole value in meters (do it for both entries), and multiply the fraction of a metre by 128 to get the fractional value, that you should also replace in both places. That is it.To anyone else who may be reading this, please do not start placing duplicate AFCAD files throughout FS. It is much easier to solve this problem by just modifying the default airport elevation with Jacky's program and you will avoid potential conflicts.Best regards.Luis

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Hi all.I don't see a work-around other than Peter's discovery. The first instance of the Airport code determines the elevation of the aprons.However, only the simple Airport info is needed, not the entire copy of the new AFCAD. The code to set the ident, latitude, longitude, and elevation can be done with a simple XML-compiled code like this:<?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1"?>This may have some advantage over using a copy of the AFCAD, as it doesn't include any drawing routines... In this case, I reset the elevation to 1796.00 meters. When this BGL is placed in the Scenery Library near the bottom of the loading order, it works just fine, with the new AFCAD.Note for anyone just reading this thread: this would only be needed when changing the elevation of the airport.I would rather see this implementation, than altering part of the "AP" code... unless the entire LOD5-sized AP code is corrected and used as a replacement for the default ( much as I recommend for LWM and VTP ). Dick

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Again, thank you, Dick. This creative solution is so much better than duplicating AFCAD files. You are absolutely right and I just hope that anyone that is modifying airport altitudes and distributing the files will make this very small bgl and distribute it along with the rest of his files acoompanied by detailed instructions. As usual, you come through with solutions to the sticky problems.Like you, I have been thinking that the best solution for hyp, flattens, and even airports is to integrate the new elements into the complete default file and distribute that instead. This solution has the inevitable and evident pitfalls that we can all imagine, but at least removing the local scenery folder will not radically affect the default scenery.I was also thinking that instead of removing entire sections from the hyp files, it might be interesting to consider modifying those Areas in the default hyp file by changing the elevation to mesh-clinging. This replacement for the default will then allow any new Water Mask and altitude mesh to display correctly. And if the local scenery is removed, the default Water Mask is still intact in such a modified hyp file. I am very interested in your opinions, as you know how much we value what you think.By the way, Dick, I decided to take another look at your very clear and concise LWM tutorial and realized that it does not cover the new types of polygons and points. Undoubtedly, you wrote this back in the days of FS 2002. I wonder if you would consider updating the document - we would all benefit greatly.Luis, my friend, you are right that Dick's solution appears to resemble Peter's. There is one important difference: Dick does not place anything in the default folder. His solution addresses the true problem (which is scenery priority) without creating a potentially messy confusion. He keeps these duplicate files away from the default files and makes everything much clearer and neater. This has all sorts of advantages, I am sure you see.Jacky's program is available here in the AvSim library. I rarely recommend anything without indicating where it can be found, unless it is already right here.Best regards.Luis

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HiHappy new year everyone!Celebrations and a rampant stomach bug in the family took me away from this thread.It's back to [paid] work now, but scanning the thread I think I can see the answer in creating a new flatten polygon so I'll work on that one day soon. Any advise on utilities/tutorials gratefully received, but I'm sure I'll find them when I have time to search.Thanks for all your help.RegardsGraeme

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Hi all,>Again, thank you, Dick. This creative solution is so much>better than duplicating AFCAD files. You are absolutely right>and I just hope that anyone that is modifying airport>altitudes and distributing the files will make this very small>bgl and distribute it along with the rest of his files>acoompanied by detailed instructions. As usual, you come>through with solutions to the sticky problems.Bit late, but I just noticed this thread. In the NL2000 scenery team we have also been looking into this problem. And when we placed the additional file with the correct altitude in a lower priority scenery folder or in the sceneryworldscenery it seemed to work fine, but we got crashes when you read the weather from the internet.I don't know if this also happens if you use the small XML file Dick suggested, but I think it should be something we should be aware of.

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Thank you very much, Arno. I suspected that there would be some complications to this approach of duplicate AFCAD files.Jacky's program is very easy to use. Perhaps anyone who is providing AFCAD files with a different reference altitude will consider recommending that anyone who downloads it should use JABBgl to modify the AP file. This will not have any hidden problems and directly solves the problem of conflicting altitudes.Best regards.Luis

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Yes, agreed. In the end we also edited the AP files involved and provided a configuration tool with the scenery to do the backup and restore of the default file.This seems the best solution, but in general the altitude of the MS scenery is correct, so these problems should not happen too often.

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just a reminder that duplicate afcads and ammending the AP file didn't work anyway! Still have sinking landing AI.RegardsGraeme

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For us it worked. The AI is working correctly in our scenery now.So you might have another problem beside this as well :(.

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