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Guest GCBarni

Mr. Rob Gainer - Everyone Please Read

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Mr. Gainer over the last couple of months has contributed tremendously to the collections of mesh scenery available to the community. But, his contribution seems to have come at a high price. I refer to his slander of Justin, Dick, Holger and others. AVSIM will not support, implicitly or directly, someone who takes liberty with the "facts", and distorts them, knowingly or otherwise, toward their own end. In my personal opinion, Mr. Gainer seens to have a problem. I am not sure what it is. Paranoia, whatever. To call into question the integrity (and even the very existance) of Justin and others without foundation is unacceptable to us. Therefore, I have directed the library managers to remove all of Mr. Gainer's files, and to not accept any more of his uploads.

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Mr. Allensworth,Congratulations on your decision to remove Mr. Gainer's posts from the scenery library. You are to be commended for your integrity and excellent judgement.Wil Husted

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Just to add:It is patently clear that Mr. Gainer's "facts" are almost entirely crazed manipulations of reality. When his site was brought to my attention, I reinvestigated using the same data he had. I came to a thoroughly different conclusion almost immediately.Furthermore, he (or his "webmaster") is now claiming that anyone who is accessing his site through a transparent web proxy (as used by many ISPs, including AOL, NTL in the UK, some ATTBI areas) is attempting to hide something and intends to ban them all.Given I had an extremely pleasant discussion with Justin in Reading last year, and through the forum software I was able trivially (within 10 minutes) to confirm Holger and Dick's bonafides, I'm confident when I concur with Tom that Mr. Gainer seems to have some sort of problem -- however, that problem is undoubtedly not based in fact.Best regards,--M

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I believe it is only in Avsim's and the hobby's interest to sever all ties with Mr. Gainer. In the end nothing good could come from associating with one who twists the facts so horribly as he has.Good on you folks. :-beerchug

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>Mr. Gainer over the last couple of months has contributed>tremendously to the collections of mesh scenery available to>the community. But, his contribution seems to have come at a>high price. I refer to his slander of Justin, Dick, Holger and>others.Other than a minor quibble about the use of "slander" instead of "libel," I fully applaud the stance of AVSIM regarding this individual.It took all of ten minutes to get 'banned' from his forum, and all I said were nice things! :)

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Well, I guess he is the master of his (sub)domain. Yes, the Big Fish in his own tiny pond.Someone in my forums brought up the point that maybe he is posting back and forth to himself with assumed names.Would make sense, since I'm sure he will have banned all IPs on the internet before long.But I was the first!:-)-------Justinhttp://www.fsgenesis.netHigh Quality Scenery for FS200x

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Justin, that thought came to me as well last night. Great minds, etc etc etc. :)--M

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Thanks very much for taking this action, Tom. I had thought of bringing the matter to your attention, but fortunately you take an active part in maintaining the civil, even friendly, nature of this enthusiast site.Many thanks for providing such a welcoming atmosphere for us all.Best regards.Luis

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Just got into this thread, My question is what did the poor man did to get all these negative comments.Ing.

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According to his website, he is the only member of his forum and all four posts are by him!!Oh well, should be a lot more room on the server now his files are gone!

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>Just got into this thread, >My question is what did the poor man did to get all these>negative comments.>>Ing.Suggest you take the time to do a good long "browse" on this and other forums and make you own mind up

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I did follow most of this thread and there is still no mention on any relation to mesh publishing and a trip in the wild.!!!

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Ing:Basically this guy is upset that someone is actually making a tiny bit of money selling mesh. Then, he gets really out of hand when he is banned from a forum. (Which BTW is free for all to use so I guess if we're going to play in this sites playground and they decide they don't like us they have no obligation to let us stay) Mr. Rob Lawyer Yakity Yak has spread his fodder all over the Internet and on many people

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I am not trying to start a flame war; I do however offer a differing point of view. Please take no offence if you disagree.I hate to be a stick in the mud and am speaking out of ignorance on the subject because I did not find the post on this site where Rob Gainer perpetrated the " slander of Justin, Dick, Holger and others

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I cannot understand the point Mr.Gainer was trying to make. Did he expect to find some sort of flight sim mafia. It's sad really.Ray Barnesky

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I too was banned from the Rob Gainer forum in minutes. I was banned before I even had a chance to say anything. O well-life goes on. I think it was for the best.flyking

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I want to say that I have been using Justin's files for years and He has always been professional, helpful and supportive in all of my dealings with him. Justin has always delivered for me. Thank you Justin.flyking

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Is his site still up or have I too been banned?Fernando

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The site is still up, you must have been banned.I just noticed that most of the links on Mr. Gainer

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"All that being said, AVSIM is a privately owned property and they can set their own policies and choose what files they offer (or do not offer)."Indeed we can, and we do. When Mr. Gainer stated as a "fact" that Justin was a tax cheat, that crossed a line that we would not support, implicitely or otherwise. By hosting his files, we would be doing exactly that. By removing them, we made an unequivocal statement; people have to remember that words and deeds have consequences and that they will be held responsible for them - in so far as AVSIM has anything to say about it. If you want to be a member of this community, you don't achieve that goal by trying to destroy some of its outstanding members and contributors (commercial or otherwise). AVSIM made the simple decision to remove Mr. Gainer's files. We found his accusations and assertions to be repugnent and distortions of "fact" to be unacceptable (to put it mildly).

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Here Here AVSIM!!! Congratulations on a very wise decision. I've heard that his mesh was crap anyway.

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wow....I'd not heard of Rob Gainer or the issues before, but I just read his website. Appears to be a sad case of lawyer seeing criminal intent behind each bit of data. Then additional ideas ring criminal based on bad assumptions up front.I guess folks new to a community could be this unaware of who is who, but it a bit upsetting to see the accusations so foolishly made. Justin Tyme....I never knew if it was his real name or not...but why is this an issue? Justin released freeware for Pennsylvania, West Va, Deleware, and more for fs98 that blew me away. But what's more, he taught me selflessly many techniques for scenery design. Still today, I credit Justin with having influenced my interest in scenery design more than anyone. Folks have asked me at times why I would be willing to teach design techniques...I always refer to the hours Justin spent with me. And I firmly believe "what goes around, comes around". Holger Sandmann and Dick Ludowise...how can these people's intentions be scrutinized and conclusions of conspiracy be reached? Both of these folks teach constantly. I don't care if Gainer chose not to recognize either as a teacher to him...but to claim to be an investigator and fail to uncover the selfless hours both these people spend to teach techniques to others...well it shows the earmarks of a false "investigation", one only taken on to proove a predetermined conclusion. Witchhunt would apply. Freeware is the cause Gainer professes, yet he's attempted to smite the reputations of people who have done an amazing job to teach techniques to new freeware authors. Steve Greenwood also has gone out of his way to help me understand some fundamentals of how mesh would impact my scenery design back in the fs2000 and 2002 days. His freeware mesh for Washington is still what I fly.So...I'm just venting...thanks for all your fabulous help over the years to Justin, Steve, Holger, and Dick. I don't care if you use these names on your checks, I don't care if you make a buck selling payware, and I don't care if you have tax IDs or not. If we enjoy the flowering of artistry within the flightsim community, we must repect these folks. While Rob is likely deserving of our sympathy for his ailment, I agree with the main website's decisions. It lets us all get on with our interests without dealing with the madness of Rob's thinking.Bob Bernstein

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Hi all:during last week's vacation (computerless - bliss!) I "fantasized" a couple of times about coming home and the Rob Gainer "saga" having disappeared. Imagine my surprise to discover that just that has happened! (have to come up with a more rewarding fantasy next time ;-)Many thanks to Tom and Matt, and also the crew at flightsim.com, for their support in this matter - much appreciated! It's surely not an easy decision to issue a ban like this, as some of the more critical responses above indicate. On the other hand, I'm sure that fans of Rob's work will be able to find his files at FSPlanet or elsewhere (for that matter, anyone noticed the similarity of the read-me file of the recent firelandmesh.zip to Rob's read-me files? ;-) Actually, something positive has come out of this bizarre story, at least for me. I guess I have the dubious "honor" of being the first to end up in Rob's crosshairs (Feb 11 saw the first salvo). Initially, I was quite upset; talk about giving advice to the wrong person at the wrong time! However, as soon as other poeple realized what was going on I started receiving supportive emails, similar to Bob's message above (thank you very much, Bob!). Internet-based communication can be a pretty impersonal thing but in a situation like this it becomes obvious that we ARE a neat community with a well-working support network. Thanks again to all who offered kind words and helpful advice in the last few weeks; I hope I'll be able to provide similar support when needed.Perhaps another thing to remember is the (unintentional) comical relief provided by some of Rob's posts; for example, his brief appearance as "Lisa Kanski" in this forum was one of the funniest things I've ever seen.Cheers,Holger

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