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KenWood

Pilatus Bugs in Fly 2

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Donny AKA ShalomarFly 2 ROCKS!!!I have been going over default planes listing bugs so they can be fixed. This is what I noticed in the Pilatus. Some of these bugs may only occurr when switching from certain aircraft types. Did I Miss any?First, glaring bugs that affect usability of the plane:Condition lever: It will not shut down engine. Sometimes the engine overspeeds and occasionally not enough power is available for taxi. Usually the overspeeding and lack of power goes away after switching to B200 and back. Engine must be shut off by pulling fuel. If I do this then exit FLY, when I return in persistent World the engine will start by cycling the fuel cutoff even though master and start switches are off.Fuel flow: reads 700 PPH BEFORE engine start and fuel actually disapears from the tanks! Flow drops dramatically after engine start and seems to be accurate after. If you press "fuel reset" after engine start fuel used and endurance work well. The fuel quantity is accurate but does not read fuel in collector. (not a bug in my opinion). There is a fuel imbalance Alejandro noticed but this is only on the guages, with fuel pumps on auto actual fuel in tanks as shown by "aircraft, fuel loadout, show details" remains within a pound.PC12 moves easily with parking brake on, as do most default FLY 2 planes.The nosewheel comes off and stay off ground way too easily, increasing difficulty of takeoffs/landings.No gear horn, not even idle, full flaps 100' AGL. Whoever fixes that PLEASE fix the "gear horn silence" button to left of gear switch too!Yaw damper does not keep ball centered.Autoplot lacks a back course approach button though there is room for it next to APR. Test button inop, fortunately for now autopilot works without being tested though THAT is a bug that should be corrected eventually!Problems with Autopilot not following Vertical select bug. It will not allow a descent if selected altitude is above you or capture an altitude when following a selected vertical rate. I am still pinning down the nature of this problem.The backup NAV 1 compass rose does not always align. The popup window can still be used for setting OBS.EFIS HSI screen should have an apropriately colored number appearing when heading bug is offscreen in Arc mode as per FLY 2 manual.EFIS NAV 2 course selector will not center. Glideslope will not appear if tuned in NAV 2. COM 2 will not transmit even when mike is selected. Audio panel comes on with just master switch with radio master and ground clearance switches off.JUST A SUGGESTION: Double-clicking with the mouse on the "heading" or "course selector" bugs should snap them to your current heading like pulling knob in real world PC12s.(I am starting to get into bugs that do not directly affect usability)Temperature stays at 723 degrees full throttle up to 25,000 feet. No decrease in torque or warning on guages.47 amp draw with just master switch on. Voltage remains at 28 with 0 amp draw on battery with BOTH gens off and engine running.Gen 1 amps not displayed and "menu" button inop.Flight director bars should go away when FD not selected on autopilot.Flaps light is always on with master switch, not just when flaps extended at too high airspeed.Shift X nav display from SENECA won't work in PC12 (or any default plane I tried.)Backup ELECTROmechanical gyro should spool up when master switch energised, not wait for engine. (That's why they're called electromechanical.) Also backup gyro should remain usable and lighted 1/2 hour after master off if power pack armed.Cabin altitude increases with adjustments on ground.(Now I'm REALLY getting picky!)Prop spins slowly in exterior view even with engine off.Cabin altitude indicator on throttle quadrant, manual throttle override and emergency "gang bar" on overhead inop.FLY 2 IS THE BEST SIM AMD THE PC12 IS MY FAVORITE DEFAULT PLANE. My motivation to present this list is not to complain but hopefully to help better qualified people improve FLY 2. Now post what YOU got!!!

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Donny,Thanks for taking the time to check all of this stuff. I'll start working on the list trying to follow the order you used.I'll post here on the progress.I'm confident that we'll get a PC-XII even closer to real-life... The nice thing is that I have the complete manual!!!http://www.avsim.com/hangar/fly/dfdg/banneraa.jpg

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Donny,A quick note on VNAV transition to altitude capture: Under its current flight dynamics, the Pilatus will capture the assigned altitude if you pull power back when appproaching that altitude. Capture on descent works fine in the 1500 fpm range.The flaps warning light will turn off when Panel Lights switch is on and it's overcast... :-)

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Donny AKA ShalomarFly 2 ROCKS!!!WOW you guys are fast. The autopilot will not enter a descent when negative descent rate selected/armed except SOMETIMES if selected altitiude is lower. I usually select IAS and reduce power so I am not very familiar wth this particular bug, I was only inspired to test the systems when I realised there was hope for improvement. The computer I fly on is not on the internet. If fixes could be combined to run off a single EXE that would be the greatest. I could burn it on a CD and take it home. The condition lever is an urgent cry for help but other than that I don't care about the order.THANX TO EVERYONE WHO LISTS BUGS, ANYLISES THEM OR WORKS TO FIX THEM!

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Donny AKA ShalomarFly 2 ROCKS!!!The fuel pump and ignition lights are constantly on. The pumps run as required to keep tanks in balance but ignition is a mystery. I forgot to test rocker switch and check for tourqe drop when inertial separator selected.I saw a fix in the aircraft category that say fixes brakes, steering and glide slope while improving aircraft climb and cruise performance. pilatusfix.zipAlso saw 2 fixes for default aircraft that may include Pilatus. I do not know if the second one includes the first one. The Hawker gets autothrottle and autobraking! I would hate to see you reinvent the wheel if somebody else worked on the Pilatus previously.ac.defaultfix.zipac.defaultfix2.zipI don't know why these patches are in the aircraft category not in patches. Also there is a fix so Navaho engines counterotate. I forget the name, it's under K for Kodiak.Best regards, Donny

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Donny,All of these fixes are worth having, especially the two from Rob Young, the Pilatus fix and the Flyhawk fix.I also recommend the B200 GPS add-ons by Bosco Leal.

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>Flight director bars should go away when FD not selected on>autopilot.I no longer use FLY. But I recall distinctly that FLY (both FLY!2k and FLY!II) had a serious problem with the Flight Director. I was often in correspondence on the subject with the SimGuy (Paul Russell) at TRI but first he argued all was fine with the FD then changed his tune and was telling me they simply had no time to fix the issue (their priorities were on eye candy at that time). When the problem persisted in FLY2 it was unfortunately for me the last straw in abandoning this simulator. The problem with its FD was that its indications were simply bogus - it was acting as a mere pointer. I never heard of the FD being fixed so I would assume it must still be broken. By the way, it was not limited to the Pilatus, it was common for all aircraft. You may want to check into it.Michael J.WinXP-Home SP2,AMD64 3500+,Abit AV8,Radeon X800Pro,36GB Raptor,1GB PC3200,Audigy 2

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G'day Michael, When the problem persisted in FLY2 it>was unfortunately for me the last straw in abandoning this>simulator. The problem with its FD was that its indications>were simply bogus - it was acting as a mere pointer. I never>heard of the FD being fixed so I would assume it must still be>broken. By the way, it was not limited to the Pilatus, it was>common for all aircraft. You may want to check into it.>Sorry Michael, wrong again! :-lol Whilst the FD in Fly!II may not be 100% accurately modelled I can assure you that it does work as a director and not merely a pointer.Cheers,Roger

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G'day Michael,I went and checked the FD in the Navajo. I think we have a communication problem. The very same one I think you alluded to with Paul Russell.< the problem being with it's FD that the indications were simply bogus - it was acting as a mere pointer.> Is your complaint that there is no follow up between the command bars and the aircraft bank angle ? ie. as the aircraft banks towards the the command bars, they continue to bank steeper? At small bank angles this is hardly noticeable. The command bars certainly act as a director though in that they command a change of heading and if followed one will wind up on the correct new heading. The commanded bank being variable dependent upon the change in heading required. ie. they don't just say bank left or bank right, but also give the pilot an indication of the degree of bank required. The fact that one can't catch up with the command bars is rather trivial to me. To each his own :-)If the above is what you are complaing about then I apologise for jumping on you in my previous post. :-)If not then I haven't a clue what you are on about?Cheers,Roger

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Roger,I never saw FD functioning proprely in FLY - it was a highly irritating fact for me since FLY! claimed to be geared for hard-core simmers and FD is such a vital piece of avionics (where installed). Maybe Richard Harvey in his last days fixed it but I wouldn't bet on it. This would be a fix little bit outside of his technical competence area. He always deferred such issues to Paul Russell. I would have hard time counting how many times I approached Paul begging (through FLY2 beta) him to fix this problem - to no avail. His last reply was if I recall that it was simply low on the priority.By the way MSFS suffered from the same problem for a long time but it was finally fixed (in FS2002 or FS2004). But still to this day you can get add-ons for MSFS which have FD broken (take for example Piper Cheyenne by FSD). FSD even one day banned me from their forum since I complained about their broken FD. To my great satisfaction a year (!!) later they admitted the error but they never fixed the Cheyenne. PMDG and Flight1 are notable exceptions - their FDs are functioning perfectly. Even the freeware Bill Grabowski's ERJ-145 panel got the FD right - Bill admitted it took him a while to figure it out. There is a fair amount of ignorance what makes FD 'good' or 'bad'. Instead of trying to describe it myself I quote below a long post on the subject by a former 747 pilot. There are some easy tests that can be performed to test correctness of the FD logic. Please read below.IS YOUR FLIGHT DIRECTOR A DUD? by Peter Edwards This is a rehash of a post I made here at Avsim some 18 months ago. Forgive me for revisiting this subject, but unfortunately nothing much has changed since then. My credentials are - retired airline pilot, having spent the last five years of my career as a captain on the B747-200 with a leading international airline, and having been a user of MS Flight Simulator in its various incarnations for some twelve years. First let's look at what a flight director's (FD) function is - it's to provide steering commands to the pilot to fly the aircraft manually just as the autopilot (AP) would in the same situation, and to this end it uses the same switching inputs as the AP. Its secondary role is to provide a monitoring function over the AP, in that if FD and AP are well integrated, the command bars stay centred throughout except in response to a new input until the aircraft catches up. An FD display is usually either a pair of "command bars" or "V-bars", the principle and display being the same whatever the aircraft type. The term "command bars" refers to the FD pitch and roll bars, not to ILS needles and such, which are situation indicators. If you use the AP all the time, you may not notice anything wrong with a bad FD as the indications can be subtle. This piece is mainly directed at people who enjoy handflying in IFR, in which case a good FD is a sine qua non. Many, if not most, of our simulated FDs are nothing of the sort. Gauge developers often seem to have little or no idea how they should function or what to aim for. Most seem to end up as situation indicators, which is pointless as we already have the raw data displays. If you treat this type as a steering aid you'll end up in real trouble. It's better to ignore them or, best of all, switchthem off. To put it another way, a bad FD tells you where an altitude/localiser/glideslope is, but a good one guides you there. How can you tell if you have a properly functioning FD? Fortunately MS, bless their hearts, got things right years ago with the FD on the default B737. It works correctly and well, so you can use it as a yardstick as well as see how a good FD should operate and what to look for in your add-ons. You need to set up a couple of situations, and you mustn't use the AP. First, fly along in FD altitude hold, manually, using your add-on panel/aircraft. Then deliberately offset yourself by, say, 1000ft from the FD held altitude. The pitch bar indicates a command to return to that altitude. But the dud bar stays deviated until you reach it regardless of the pitch you feed in. If you follow the bar, given time and space you'd probably reach the vertical. Now repeat the exercise on the default B737. The pitch bar deviates, just as before. But this time when you apply what the FD regards as an adequate control input the pitch bar will return to centre although you're still way off the preset altitude. Now all you do is keep the bar centred and it will direct you to that altitude at a reasonable rate of climb or descent and then smoothly command opposite control input as you approach it, so you can level off. The other exercise is on a manually flown ILS with the FD in approach mode. Start a fair way out to give yourself plenty of time and space - you needn't be on the glideslope. From a position of holding the centreline, offset yourself from the localiser (not the roll bar) further than full deflection of the ILS pointer or HSI display. Stay in approach mode. Your dud FD will command a turn to recover the localiser, but it won't control your roll angle which once again could exceed the vertical with the roll bar showing complete indifference until you actually reach the localiser (and zoom through it). Try the same thing in the default B737. This time, when you roll into the correcting turn, when you reach a normal bank angle (about 25 deg) the FD roll bar will come back to centre (or past, if you've over-rolled). If you keep it centred, your bank angle will be held at 25 deg until you reach a reasonable intercept angle, when the roll bar will move the opposite way, commanding you to roll out of the turn and continue straight on until approaching the localiser centreline. At this point it will direct you to turn onto the localiser and smoothly put you on the centreline. You can do the same exercise in relation to the glideslope or, if you're feeling clever, both at once. Once set up, this way you can check out your FD in five minutes or less. In my experience, though, if the altitude capture mode doesn't work properly, the rest won't either. Bear in mind that with an FD, the fact that the needles are centred or V-bars aligned doesn't necessarily mean that you're on any sort of navaid centreline (though you can be) - it just indicates that you're doing the right thing to get there. When an FD is functioning correctly, all you have to do is keep the bars centred (or the V-bars aligned with the aircraft symbol) with occasional glances at the ILS pointers to make sure things are OK. The FD makes IFR handflying far easier, but it must work properly and many panel developers aren't producing the goods. To return to what I said at the start - the FD should provide steering commands only. It is not a situation display - for that you must look at the little pointers at the edge of the ADI. At the moment many developers seem to think an FD only needs to be a repeat of the ILS pointers in a different format - there's far more to it than that. MS got it right, some five years ago, and it's high time everyone else did. For those of you who've stuck with me so far, remember - these days you're paying good money for many of these add-ons, but you can't take it for granted they'll work properly because of that - some freeware examples are fine, some payware ones amateurish, to put it mildly. Things won't change until you start complaining. So - save or copy this page, tell your friends, spread the word, and check out the FD that comes with your shiny new Cheyenne or whatever. If you think it doesn't function correctly, ask for it to be put right. A final thought - despite its importance, I've never seen this failing picked up in a website review, so perhaps reviewers should do some homework and a more searching job in this regard. Michael J.WinXP-Home SP2,AMD64 3500+,Abit AV8,Radeon X800Pro,36GB Raptor,1GB PC3200,Audigy 2

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Michael,Thanks for posting the article.Very informative.Colin

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Donny AKA ShalomarFly 2 ROCKS!!!In all FLY 2 aircraft and the FS9 Beech Baron I flew today the ELECTROmechanical gryos don't spool up with juice from the master switch. What does Mr Edwards say 'bout that?

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Donny,That's easy to fix. I'll give you the example for the Pilatus. UnPod the Pilatus.AMP file to your world folder. Open it with Notepad or Wordpad. Do a search for "Backup Attitude", you should see something like this (but with indents): - Subsystem entry - ATTI - Backup Attitude Indicator - atti - erection time constant - 0.5 - precession rate - 1440.0 -- Pneu Pump Message -- nup1 -- Pneu Pump Message -- nup2 bbus -- Emergency Power Unit - Arm -- epua Simply delete everything that is shown in bold. Save the file, start Fly! II and now your Backup Attitude indicator will work as soon as you turn the Battery switch on. All we did was remove the condition to have at least one vacuum pump working. Also, right now it'll remain on forever as long as the Emergency Power Unit switch is in the armed position. I may be able to make it die after 1/2 an hour.Enjoy!http://www.avsim.com/hangar/fly/dfdg/banneraa.jpg

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Donny AKA ShalomarFly 2 ROCKS!!!Whoa!!! :-newbie ALERT!!! You'e talking to a guy that just barely got the Seneca going a few weeks ago. As far as the unpodding step, do I use the pod.view located in the "tools" folder? I am away from the computer I fly on but I don't recall a "world" folder. I plan to lug my computer to Philly next week so I can plug in my bro's DSL network. Can I assume Notepad or Wordpad are available from Microsoft.com? I AM starting to see how it can be easy to fix problems once I know the procedures. I am not so secretly hoping fixes to existing aircraft are included in the ROTW DVD but Rene hasn't posted lately. P.S. Alejandro you are a treasure!!!:-wave

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Donny, Use Podview to open the pod file in question. Find and highlight the AMP file by left clicking once, then under File, choose Extract to (Think the shortcut is Ctrl-E) and type the path you wish, i.e. where Fly!II is installed. Mine is F:Fly2 . There is a box with the line reading "Recreate directory structure", click on that, and when the file extracts, the World folder will be created for you.Notepad and Wordpad are included with the Windows installation, and you should be able to find them by clicking on Start button, then look in the Accessories folder. Easier way is to right click once on the file in question, choosing Open or Open With option in the sub-menu. If you do the .amp file, click on the Open With and choose Notepad. Hope this helps!Cheers,Ken Wood :-sun1Seawind Projecthttp://www.avsim.com/hangar/fly/dfdg/bannernewkw.jpgGateway 700X; Intel P4 2.4GHz; 512MB RAM; NVIDIA Ti4200 4X AGP 128MB; SB Audigy; Thrustmaster TopGun Fox 2 Pro Shock

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