b737800

Good point. To me that highlights part of software (or pretty much any other product) pricing that some people don't or wont see, or don't care about. Many, or probably most of these developers are small businesses. Their bills don't stop when their sales stop and employing staff increases costs massively over and above those of a one man band working from home. Highly likely that some of them have already seen sales drop to a point where they are almost meaningless but still need to be supported. If their cashflow wasn't already in a good place then they could very easily and very quickly find themselves in a position where they just have to close, or at least lay off staff. When they do (I hope) emerge from the other side with a shiny new product, a good portion of that early revenue will need to be offset against many months of low income and another buffer built up to allow them to survive the next "FS2020". However is does bring lots of new opportunities and "survival of the fittest" is often a good thing. So yes I do spare them a thought, but it's not much more than a thought as they've already earned my money. What I will most definitely do is, when I see their pricing, take into account the rollercoaster ride that pretty much all small businesses experience before boldly stating that they are a rip-off. Written by a small business owner (software) who is clearly not biased in any way, shape or form 😉

This is what ETOPS was designed for. In all seriousness I totally agree. I thought I was imagining it the first few times I saw it. It also seems to appear at random distances. In some of the lower level flying videos there was a degree of morphing on buildings / parking lots / whatever just half a mile or so in front when textures a little further away were already high res. I notice it more at about 45 degrees from heading, but that might just be me.

Words of the wise. I lack many things (my ex wife keeps telling me) and wisdom is somewhere near the top of a long list. Appreciate your input on many of these threads.

Do i need to count them? What's your real question?

Open discussion is absolutely perfect if it's approached with an open mind. Opinions are just that, and they change with new information, but that information needs to be based on fact rather than raw emotion, gut feelings or total guesses. Back to the OP. Microsoft have already stated that they intend to support a wide range of hardware devices. I think it goes without saying that they will support standard interfaces. FSUIPC might be a sticking point, it might not. Are you lobbying the manufacturers of your hardware to make sure they will be doing all they can to make their kit compatible? You probably spent a lot more $$$ with them than you ever did with Microsoft related to the flight sim and compatibility is a 2 way street.

You expressed an opinion about a poster being attacker while writing "kiddies" and "A few of you need to take a reality check." which was probably the most flame-bated post in the thread so far. I then asked you a question that you chose not to answer. Fair enough. Really? Saturday detention finished already?

Attacked? This is a forum for discussion. If people need to "take a reality check" rather than be able to express differing options then what is the point of being here? Where is the attack?

Motion sickness is (I believe) mostly caused by the inner eye not receiving the same motion info as the eyes. A bit like looking down to read a book while in a car. Your balance is telling you that you're moving while your eyes are telling you you're not. I'm not sure how VR without motion will ever cure that problem without a prescription. As for the topic in hand... it is up to the add-on developers (whether hardware or software) to keep their products up to date. Microsoft just has to provide a decent API for them to do so. In no way shape or form should Microsoft need to spend any time making things backward compatible if it creates any compromises on the ability to improve new stuff.

Large image warning (which is why i've not embedded as a picture). https://gyazo.com/e50fdc62ec99eb6784eaec8b00e461f3 This is a screenshot I've just taken from the latest 737 cockpit. The fidelity and quality is something I've not seen in any other add-on as yet. Donuts while taxiing aside, the rest of the product seems to be of similar quality. I shall not post further in this thread as we'll just go round in circles. Enjoy your game, or sim, whichever term you prefer.

Which kids games have you been ripped off on? I'll write them a letter on your behalf. We have a difference of opinion. That's fine and it's what makes us human. I tend not to buy any of the cheaper add-ons. You don't want to buy PMDG. I guess we're different target markets and that is perfectly acceptable in a game, a sim or anything else.

I don't play games, hardly ever have. I see a big difference between a simulator and a game. i get the impression that many others here do too. Microsoft of course are further clouding the distinction by releasing for XBox, but I don't use consoles. The other product that I mentioned is also just an add on for that "game". It was a reasonable comparison to make. It offers many of the features that the PMDG software offers, some that it doesn't, but also misses many that PMDG do. It is a more valid comparison than a car addon for a driving game would be because, up until now, the target markets and market sizes of FSX / P3D has been very different from console games. I don't use Steam so can't produce a list I'm afraid. For the reasons I've given above the list wouldn't be particularly useful anyway. If the price point for anything targeted at the sim is that critical to the market you should have similar outrage with both of these: http://www.thrustmaster.com/en_US/products/tpr-thrustmaster-pendular-rudder https://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/ The fact that they are both hardware does not make them any more inherently valuable, in my opinion. Effort is effort regardless of the end result.

Can't argue with that. Let's hope such practice is a thing of the past.

I'm struggling to see the rationale in the thinking here. If the freeware developers gave a monkey's about what other companies might be charging then why are they creating for free anyway? Surely an add-on that some people think is overpriced is EXACTLY what drives the freeware developers to create, not the other way around. It is a positive for them. Why is the entire game franchise affected? You don't have to buy PMDG. There are other choices. If you feel that strongly, why don't you get a team together and create one yourself? Not only would that be great for the franchise, but you would have a far greater understanding of what is needed to do it and could make a more informed decision on what pricing is right and what is wrong. By your logic there is a crystal clear place in the market for a cheaper 737. That is marketing gold and you should jump straight on it. Have you seen the prices for products such as Project Magenta? One could argue that the PMDG 737 does everything that Project Magenta does and a whole load more (like 1000000% more), yet Project Magenta is exactly what I needed in my pit build 13 or so years ago and I bought it because I saw the value. Out of interest, the cost for a Boeing type glass cockpit for both seats, along with systems software etc was well north of $1000 if I remember correctly. If you think PMDG is expensive then that other software is definitely not for you. There are 1000s of products available for you at $10, $20 , $50, $100. Why should I not be able to spend $140 on something that I believe gives me what I want and is worth the money? it should not affect you in any way, shape or form. Why do we have to McDonalds everything? Would you like fries with that?

Oh my lord. Kleenex moment. Some of that footage is indistinguishable from real world. Totally stunning.

If I were them, which of course I'm not, i would probably consider a "Lite" version at around the $60 or so mark. Might give them the best of both worlds. I've yet to find all the bells and whistles in the new version (and I almost never read manuals), but I can already appreciate the amount of additional work that went into this latest version. Even with the taxiing donuts.

Exactly right. As I mentioned I'm in exactly that position now and I have to make estimates based on something that has taken 1 year of my time to create and having done exactly the same thing 3 years or so ago. My own calculations give me a reasonable expected sales volume of 10,000 units. The "Microsoft" involved takes 50%, however they do all the marketing and POS. At $80 per unit to the end user that gives me a gross of $400,000, of which 25% goes to my investor, leaving roughly $300,000 for me, spread over a likely timeline of 2 years. Given the risks involved, what I *could* earn from other efforts etc. means that although that income might sound high to some, it's only just hitting the "go for it" criteria for me. The fact that there is also a "for professional use" possibility from the same software with little to no extra effort tips it over the edge. ...and after this project comes another, so the cycle repeats.

What is your profession, and can I buy whatever product or service you might be involved with at a price that I choose, not you, even though I can only guess your costs? If not, I'll steal it anyway. All that written in the same post that talks about fairness. At $60 or less per unit they would have to sell 3 times the volume to be in the same financial position.

How dare you bring sanity and rationale into this thread. No place for it. Actually I'm close to bringing a piece of software to (an unrelated) market and I need to set the initial price point and I have to weigh up costs, perceived value, profit targets and many other factors against what I think the market will bear. I'd be interested in knowing some "guesstimates" as to PMDG's potential market size as an exercise in futility, so please add some more sanity to any figures below that you think might be WAY off, taking existing sims as a baseline and a product that is a single aircraft type and ignoring the possibility of a new sim (FS2020) that might increase numbers at some point in the future: P3D / FSX / XP active users: 3 million % of those that have paid for any add-ons: 20% = 600,000 % of those that are interested in 1 specific airliner type: 20% = 120,000 (this is my target market) % of those that I can expect to be made aware of and consider my product: 30% (total guess) = 36,000 % conversion rate: 10% = 3,600 units sold Timescale to sell those units: 2 years Price point $140 Gross income = 140 * 3,600 = $504,000, over 2 years, heavily weighted to 1st year, I would be very interested in which of the figures above you might think are way off the mark. This of course ignores any "commercial" market - only looking at the serious simmers down to the gamers. Thanks

No need to apologise my friend. If it's your opinion it's your opinion. I'd sell my wife for this thread.

Perhaps the gamers aren't PMDGs target market.

Come on Noooch, you write many quality posts. You might think the price is too high, even totally unjustified, but $140 for software is insane?

It is in the phone manufacturers interest to release new OSs as often as possible. They want your phone to run slower and slower so you buy a new one. ... and we drift off topic.

T-shirts on sale next week.

At last, a well written post on the non-supporting side of the PMDG pricing point. I'm on the other side of the fence (in case you didn't already realise) but I totally understand and accept your rationale.

Interesting. I have the Rift S which in some ways is a step back from the Rift, although newer. I don't get screen door affect at all, but age might have a big impact here. Biggest peeves for me are the limited field of view and the nausea which probably comes from my inner ear not receiving the same motion cues as my as my eyes. Resolution can always improve but it's better than I expected from the feedback I read before buying. In terms of the field of view, it reminds me of some of the earlier Level D sims, where the view (which was graphically awful anyway) was cut off before the end of the L2 / R2 windows. However, the "enclosed" cockpit and 6 DOF motion are mind blowing. I'd take that motion over graphics every day of the week, but of course want both.