Hi, I was just curious how the FD should be used. It seems that it is always better to just shut it off and fly the approach without it(maually of course). The input commands always seem to be exagerated and make you go all over the place. Is it used much in the RW? and if it is, how is it used? Is there a trick to it? I've heard you have to stick to it religiously to do an almost perfect profile, which makes sense since it is the AP commands steering it, but still, it seems impossible to follow it in a stable manner. Anyone got a good handle on flying it? Any tips? :) Thanks in advance,regards,Max M.

Max,The 757 Pilots I have flown with leave the FD on but they very seldom use it for guidance. Most of the time the A/C is on autopilot until established on the approach (ie G/S and LOC captured). Then the crew, once the A/C is configured for landing the crew will usually disconnect the A/P and hand fly the Raw Data displayed for the ILS on the ADI to landing. The FD when coupled to the A/P for a Cat IIIB does an amazing job of keeping the A/C right on track without any major corrections however it is pretty hard to hand fly FD commands on approach. I believe the FD is left on only because it would be extra work to turn it off :-)RegardsPaul:-coolPaul GollnickTechnical Operations/Customer Operational SupportPrecision Manuals Development Groupwww.precisionmanuals.com

Paul,I suspected this, but it shure would be nice to be able to master it, just for fun :). Thanks for the info,regards,Max

Well I am not a real world pilot but know enough to say that the F/D is a "guide" for pilots to fly for correct pitch/slope for a set airspeed. It's true that just following the F/D can lead to dangerous situations including flying into the ground if one is not careful! Take the 757-767 aircraft. On T/O you always set your V2 speed on the MCP and the F/D will guide for a V2+15 pitch profile, but most will not just follow the F/D right on T/O but will pitch between 15-18 degrees paying closer attention to their speed while climbing out. Landing is no different, shoot for a 3 degree slope while hand flying. The "key" to the flight director is simply this "DO NOT EVER CHASE IT!"[h5]Best Wishes,Randy J. SmithSan Jose Ca[/h5][h3]" A little learning is a dangerous thing"[/h3] [h5]AMD XP 2200 |MUNCHKIN 512 DDR RAM |ECS[/b ][i] K7S5A MB[/i] |GF3 64 MEG @ 215/545|WIN XP PRO |MITSUBISHI DIAMOND PLUS 91 19"[/h5]

Randy is correct, Chasing the FD leads to really ugly situations ;-)When we first got the 757 the procedure for T/O was nose up 7 degrees until positive rate then nose up 22 degrees for initial climb. :-eek They finally changed the procedure because it scared the pax :-) (great for nose abatement though passed thru 1500 ft RA by the end of the runway. ) :-lol now only a 17 degree pitch for initial climb.RegardsPaul:-coolPaul GollnickTechnical Operations/Customer Operational SupportPrecision Manuals Development Group[www.precisionmanuals.com]

Now that's funny. I can picture those lucky (poor souls)ones holding on for dear life :). But then again the 757 is a rocket on crack... You fly the 757 Paul? I better watch my answers hehe. Ok, no more than 2-2.5 degrees @ sec on rotation (tail stike bad) to a maximum of 18 degrees pitch up (BA) or there abouts. But I do think in this sim it's ok to follow the F/D once established in your climb or just engage vanv (no lower than 400') and forget about it. [h5]Best Wishes,Randy J. SmithSan Jose Ca[/h5][h3]" A little learning is a dangerous thing"[/h3] [h5]AMD XP 2200 |MUNCHKIN 512 DDR RAM |ECS[/b ][i] K7S5A MB[/i] |GF3 64 MEG @ 215/545|WIN XP PRO |MITSUBISHI DIAMOND PLUS 91 19"[/h5]

Randy,Nah, don't get to fly (although I have been through 757 Ground School and initial sim training) but ride the Jumpseat alot and have lots of friends in Flight Operations. I am lucky enough to work the bird everyday though so I have become fairly well aquainted with her :-) Nothing like the Maytag fleet (as we call it) Just gas and Go.RegardsPaul:-coolPaul GollnickTechnical Operations/Customer Operational SupportPrecision Manuals Development Group[www.precisionmanuals.com]

Max,I am a bit surprised at some strange responses you have got here.FD is actually a wonderful tool. First, are you referring to FLY or MSFS when you talk about your experience of flying the approach and go "all over the place" ? Because in FLY! series indeed I recall FD was totally useless. In FLY it was a mere pointer. But this was a bug in software and not in any way related to flying with FD in the real world. Some add-on MSFS aircraft also have a useless FD. It varies from product to product but surpisingly the default FD in MSFS is quite good.I have been using 767PIC (an MSFS product) and it has an absolutely wonderful FD. I don't think I would be able to fly a manual ILS approach to minimum without it. There is absolutely no 'chasing' involved. You would actually had done a lot more 'chasing' had you flown without the FD. The software behind the FD should smooth everything out - if it does not it means it is the fault of the simulator. To this date there are sim products being made where FD is totally messed up - you must have been using one of them.I do have a copy of a very long post that one time a 747 pilot made on the MSFS forum pointing out the fact how poorly FD is executed in some add-on products. He also emphasizes importance of well functioning FD in a real world flying.So the bottom line - get yourself a 'right' product and enjoy flying manually with the FD - like pros do.Michael J.

Michael a couple of things here.1] What I have stated as regards to the F/D was strictly in regards to the 757-767 aircraft and even then I was mostly dealing with the F/D in a general sense and mostly on T/O.2] I have "close" friends who fly the real bird so what I say must be strange to the real "pros" who actually fly the bird.3] This disussion was more based upon real world use of the flight director and I choose to mention PIC 767 which does replicate it's RW counterpart very well.4] If you think there's no chasing involved, then maybe you should vist the PIC 767 forum where you have not been a part in a long while and you will see the "pros" talk about this issue (not that PIC chases but PEOPLE chase it)...3] [h5]Best Wishes,Randy J. SmithSan Jose Ca[/h5][h3]" A little learning is a dangerous thing"[/h3] [h5]AMD XP 2200 |MUNCHKIN 512 DDR RAM |ECS[/b ][i] K7S5A MB[/i] |GF3 64 MEG @ 215/545|WIN XP PRO |MITSUBISHI DIAMOND PLUS 91 19"[/h5]

There are folks capable to misuse anything. :-(I guess I must be a super-pilot since I have absolutely no problem using the FD in 767PIC with great results. I actually find FD fairly "idiot-proof" provided the 'idiot' is a real-life pilot and knows ABC of airplane handling.My point to Max was merely that in "good hands" FD is a great tool worthy its big $$. But if the FD is poorly simulated - it is totally wortless and unless Max tells us what product he has in mind we won't know if the issue is in the FD itself or in the pilot's technique.Michael J.

Gents-For those who aren't aeronautically inclined- let me offer a quick definition of what the flight director is...In most aircraft the F/D is a visual representation of what you have set the autopilot up to do. As such, if you follow it precisely, you will fly the airplane to the same degree of precision as the autopilot.The autopilot on the airplane will follow flight director cues with relentless precision because that is what the autopilot does. On some aircraft the flight director must be used in order to have access to more than just heading/altitude hold. On other aircraft, display of the F/D is purely at the discretion of the pilot, althought having it hidden does not mean that it isn't working. ;-)I think some folks have trouble following a F/D in a sim because the F/D is over sensitive- and reacts more quickly that real world F/Ds. In the real world they are generally tuned to certain pitch and roll rates in order to promote a more comfortable ride. In the sim, if the F/D moves quickly from one pitch/roll setting to another very quickly, it is hard to follow fluidly.While flying the line, I generally will use the F/D any time I have to hand fly an approach in poor vis/cielings when I am tired, the conditions are busy (heavy traffic volume, unusually strong winds, turbulence or other distractions) or any time I am hand flying an approach with a distracting mechanical irregularity. (Read: Engine out, etc...)The F/D does a wonderful job and can be relied upon 100% of the time.The important part is: You have to know how to use it- and how to set it up. If you initiate a go-around, for example, and do not hit the G/A switch on the throttles, the F/D is suddenly going to be useless to you...So, in short- a F/D is a great tool!I think you will find the F/D capability that comes with our customer autopilot in the NG is quite user friendly! (Provided you set it up correctly, of course!)

Thanks for the info Robert :-coolregards,Max M.

Max,Virgin Blue procedure for the 737s is to disconnect the F/D when the a/c has been "cleared for a visual approach", otherwise it is left on the remainder of the time.Cheers.Dino

Michael, I had CS 727 in mind, but I have found the same kind of problem on almost any sim plane I have tried. Now I'm thinking the AP/FD behaviour is closely tied to computer performance(my PC I mean), since I tried it in my brother's faster computer (2.1MHZ and fancy GC), and it seems to work a bit better(it might just be me). Maybe it would be a good idea to have a sort of "gain" adjust for the FD/AP that would take into account your particular computer's performance. It may not be realistic, but it could at least help a bit, if this is indeed the reason. I have not tried PIC, but would love to try it; maybe in the future I will. Right now I am learning all I can on the 727, and soon the 737 :). I have found that to really enjoy the sim, I have to devote some time to soak all the particular plane's stuff(And that is 90% of the fun! :)). I can see now from your posts and Robert's post that the FD is a valuable tool and -as I perceive it- one that makes your life easier actually. Of course, it must need some practice! :)regards,Max.

>Michael,> I had CS 727 in mind, but I have found the same kind of>problem on almost any sim plane I have tried. Max,Can't help you with CS 727 - don't have it. If you want a plane that is free and that has FD working beautifully - I strongly suggest Bill Grabowski's ERJ-145 panel. You can download it and test it in less than an hour. I believe it is in Avsim's library.Michael J.