Hi Folks,i've read that forum since the bird was released. And i wondering, how the different flightsimproducer choose their betatester?!It's always the same procedure as every release for FS. It Happens to PSS, DF and many others. I can't really understand while this happen every release for FS (meaning ALL Producers).It seems that the producers want to make the fast money, and not the best support of the world can us comforting while there is so many vasted time with patching here and waiting there . The Name PMDG was an all well known name in the fs-community, but with those products you have lost at least one buyer who is very very dissapointed about the many many bugs in the 737-Product.Apart from this all, its unbelivable that there is no manual out as stated before. It's like a new car without keysa little bit annoyed reader...Migh

>Hi Folks,>>i've read that forum since the bird was released. And i>wondering, how the different flightsimproducer choose their>betatester?!Something wrong with us beta testers?

One of the difficulties that any software producer has, whether for Flight sim or any other package is the many and varied systems that users can have.It is not possible to emulate how every single user has FS set up, let alone what other applications they have running.In this case (PMDG) there is a clash with Flight Manager. As it is not a well known add on, it is highly likely that noe of the beta testers had this product.Unless you can have 1000s of testers (and in this case it would not be practical) you would not be able to test every scenario.In retrospect it may have been unwise for PMDG to release the 737 without the documentation as this may reslolve a number of the issues. Unfortunately, they are between a rock and a hard place, due to the pressure placed on them by users wanting the add-on as soon as possible. The believed they thought they were doing the right thing by releasing itwithout the documentation. I, for one, have been able to conduct a number of flight - and yes I have had problems. Until they release the manuals I am not overly concerned that things are not running 100% for me as it could be pilot error.RegardsRussell Jourdain (NZL007/ZK-RHJ)

I agree about the manual Russell. There seem to be a couple of items gone wrong that I can't resolve but I'm not going to worry much about them until the manual is available. If there's one thing I've learned in all my years of simming it's that the problem is usually me :-) . The manual will resolve some of the items and the PMDG guys will fix the ones that really need fixing. I finally flew a right-on-the-button flight from SFO to LAX this afternoon and the FMC was flawless runway-to-runway. Life is good.Doug

Fred,You said 'Something wrong with us beta testers?'Take a look at the forum and come back and ask us again. It is either the beta testers or PMDG themselves at fault for these problems. Ultimately PMDG are responsible for the end result in any case.Didn't any of the beta testers notice some of the problems detailed in many of the posts? I can't believe someone didn't say 'why does my machine grind to a halt when I use the virtual cockpit' or, 'why can I see wing-tip lights floating in mid-air when I look rear left' or...you get my meaning.There are some big fundamental issues here, so forgive me for not defending the beta testing process. People are not aware of what went on behind the scenes. It is possible you did a great job but PMDG somehow screwed it all up after it left you. Whatever happened, the end result is a rather buggy product to say the least.Rich.

Rich, you sir need to give it a rest, does that come through without fault?[h5]Best Wishes,Randy J. Smith[/h5][h6]The Next Great one? PMDG's 737NG is here![/h6][h3]" A little learning is a dangerous thing"[/h3] [h5]AMD XP 2200 |MUNCHKIN 512 DDR RAM |ECS[/b ][i] K7S5A MB[/i] |GF3 64 MEG @ 215/545|WIN XP PRO |MITSUBISHI DIAMOND PLUS 91 19"[/h5]

Good Lord....don't start finger pointing because of the current issues.The product has been released and it has bugs, now let PMDG fix it. Constant complaining is not going to get the 737 anywhere so why do it?They are aware of the current issues and have pledged to fix them...what more do you want?Maybe I can build a time machine so we can all go back to before release just to make sure all the bugs are squashed prior to release....:-lol

>Fred,>>You said 'Something wrong with us beta testers?'>>Take a look at the forum and come back and ask us again. It is>either the beta testers or PMDG themselves at fault for these>problems. Ultimately PMDG are responsible for the end result>in any case.>And you know exactly how to use every function without a manual.RegardsRussell Jourdain (NZL007/ZK-RHJ)

With all due respect Rich, I have been following this forum since day 1 of the NG. I have answered many a question when the forum load was high and the PMDG staff was overloaded. Now that it is 'calmer' I have backed out a bit.To answer your question about why I didn't ask 'why does my machine grind to a halt'....I really wish I could. There is a really good reason why that question was never asked....unfortunetly I cannot tell you why. Legalities you see. :( Perhaps PMDG will comment, but I doubt it.Anyway, rest assured that the patch will solve most(if not all) of the problems you see in this forum :)EDIT: Fixed my igrorant typing.

Fred - Thanks for the reply.Russell - You haven't the faintest idea whether I know how to work the NG with or without a manual. The two problems I detailed in my post above do not need a manual to solve, so I don't know where you are coming from here. I do not care much for the manual. I never said anything about it. You might need it - I do not.Randy / Shane - I will not give it a rest, nor will I stop reporting problems and voicing my concerns. I paid good money for a product that doesn't work as it should - I have every right to complain. I fully realise that PMDG will correct reported bugs at some point. I also realise that nothing is ever perfect when released. It is just that this product seems to have one too many bugs for my liking. I therefore question the quality control. I am a customer, it is my right to do so. The 'don't complain at software developers' attitude seems more prevelant these days, and just doesn't cut it with me.I have purchased many add-ons for FS and have always expected the odd bug. I even beta tested for a well know software company not so long back. I have never had any cause to complain as I have over any other software though. I even purchased the CS 727 and never complained about that!It comes to a point now though that you are charged quite a lot of money for a product that has quite a few issues, has instruments such as TCAS missing (ony to find out that you have to spend more money on the 800/900 for that and other systems) - all while having to deal with the frustrating and limiting registration process. I would have hoped (since the CS 727 days) that developers would start to use something like the Flight1 wrapper. Saying that, I am interested to see what PMDG are doing (as mentioned in another post).It is about time the end user stuck up for themselves. I fully realise a complex project like this won't be without fault, but why should the paying customer be a beta tester, only to have a working version at some point in the future? I never asked (or hassled) PMDG to release their product early. I would have been quite happy waiting for a month or two, but when someone releases something you tend to think it is ready.A time machine would be a good thing - I wouldn't have purchased the software yet. I would have waited to see how it developed and then made my decision. I've said before that I believe the aircraft has potential.I can't help but think your judgement is somewhat clouded here. I guess you have your reasons.Rich.

Rich, it's not that you have no right to mention problems or *bugs* it's your complete lack of etiquette in doing it that disturbs me. [h5]Best Wishes,Randy J. Smith[/h5][h6]The Next Great one? PMDG's 737NG is here![/h6][h3]" A little learning is a dangerous thing"[/h3] [h5]AMD XP 2200 |MUNCHKIN 512 DDR RAM |ECS[/b ][i] K7S5A MB[/i] |GF3 64 MEG @ 215/545|WIN XP PRO |MITSUBISHI DIAMOND PLUS 91 19"[/h5]

Let me clarify...Your initial response stated that the problems were caused by either the beta testers or PMDG.My statement was essentially saying that some of the issues may have been caused by the user through lack of knowledge on how to operate the systems.RegardsRussell Jourdain (NZL007/ZK-RHJ)

Hi Rich and other !Guess you're using FS2002 with bugs that even after 2 years never been resolved !, oki a minor mistake MS i now gonna relase a patch and you'll pay for it or ?.Yes i was one of the beta testers and if you have seen the bug list, belive it was not short.With all the different system we all are running it will not be possible at all test every single system.I find it unfair the way to start this thread, just look at the way the pmdg support is working.We have earlier seen payware developer and the way they threat their paying customer like a so called "moderated" forum, i would say it's a censured forum where people saying anything negative about their product won't be allowed to speak out.We all want bug free product, it's not possible at all in this non standard computer world.Regarding missing manuals, might have help someone but on the other hand how many is reading before trying ! and without reading asking a bounch of quistion.A note : in any product in Denmark they supply 2 manuals, on of top of the box which will be thrown right in waste box and after fiddling with the product the cumstomer just to find the 2nd manual in the buttom of the case.Yep it's a joke, but damm right about our way we act as customer to any product.Be happy, you're among a bounch of people which provide a state of art in support like you not find so many places in the year 2003.Happy flyingFlemming Jansen

Randy - thanks for the apology.Russell - Well OK, I guess that's your opinion. I can't see how the problems I mentioned above need a manual to verify though. Like I said before, don't assume I need a manual.Flemming - My point was that problems such as the virtual cockpit and wing-tip lights etc will show themselves on most if not all systems. These are not machine specific problems and neither are they effected by third party add-ons. I fully accept that other bugs exist and only show themselves in certain conditions. I have been involved with software for around 15 years , so I kind of expect it.Rich.

With all due respect to the minions who seem to be fawning all over a product that by every definition should not have been released this prematurely... how funny and ironic is it that a company named "Precision Manuals" would release as complicated a simulation as this one WITHOUT A MANUAL!!!You can't even make this stuff up !! :-lolFlightsim PhilBTW, I do agree that there are some fantastic elements to this product... I only hope that like a fine wine, it gets better with age!