There has been quite a bit of discussion accross many of these forums dealing with the latest NAVDATA issue. I do understand that it is an update. However, why has no one discussed the use of utilizing the Jepp database already in FS9 for FMC use? It already has a complete coordinated base containing SIDS (DP), STARS, and best of all APPROACHES. I have found it to be very complete. So much so that I have actually installed a simple button on the main panel of the 737NG to bring up the default FS9 GPS. With that, I can load the flight plan and then select the runway and the approach and then manually program that into the PMDG FMS.All of this got me to thinking why all the hassles with coordinating, updating and user completing data bases? I know SU2 will include approaches and MA's, but as I understand it, these will be very limited in the number of airports covered (again using an outside source). Thus it may be that the SIDS, STARS and APPROCHES may all come from different sources, although semi current, may not be coordinated. Which in my eyes is the bigger issue here.So I guess my questions are; what specifically do to 3rd party nav sets have that the Jepp FS9 nav set does not? (excluding the possible currency of the data set). Why cant this be done? (illegal? dont know how?, ect...)Just curious. :-)

Hi, MikeWell, For one, the Jepp database in FS9 is only covering CONUS to to any extent. Rest of the world has to rely on other than MS to get something close to every procedure.Also some of us like to do really like-real-life flying and are thuis using accurate real-life charts. AS you know there's a lot going on so when FS is released the data within FS is pretty much inaccurate compared to the charts.Just some thoughts... ;-)Regards,

Hi Mike,Nice thinking but as Matts mentioned there are too many inaccuracies in the FS9 database. In addition the FS9 database cannot (until now) be updated. If I am not wrong it is a late 2001 cycle which was used by Microsoft.I guess you can take the FS9 GPS as a starting point but when you use its datas you will need to crosscheck each single terminal procedure with current plates for accuracy. Michael

Mats"Well, For one, the Jepp database in FS9 is only covering CONUS to to any extent. Rest of the world has to rely on other than MS to get something close to every procedure.Also some of us like to do really like-real-life flying and are thuis using accurate real-life charts. AS you know there's a lot going on so when FS is released the data within FS is pretty much inaccurate compared to the charts"Do CONtigus US? I have had great information using it in Alaska.Michael"Nice thinking but as Matts mentioned there are too many inaccuracies in the FS9 database. In addition the FS9 database cannot (until now) be updated. If I am not wrong it is a late 2001 cycle which was used by Microsoft.I guess you can take the FS9 GPS as a starting point but when you use its datas you will need to crosscheck each single terminal procedure with current plates for accuracy"Yes, I agree with both of you. That is why I excluded 'currency' from the factors. I guess here is my point, is the navdata coming out with SU2 current? To what cycle? are they (sid star app) to the same currency level? have they been coordinated? What I am thinking is that we will probably never see a fully coordinated set of navdata (espcially when utilizing printed charts with them). Yes, you may get closer but is it worth the problems we have trying to do this?In an ideal world, you would get somthing like scheduled SimCharts (jepp) that has BOTH the printed material PLUS a complete navdata set compatible with FS. Unlikely. When we talk of inaccuracies in the FS9 database, what is that compared to? I dont know, but I just cant help but think that everyone who has FS9 has a complete set already. I cant compare data outside of the US, are you saying that it is 90% complete in those areas? 50%? 10%?, how bad is it?

FS's database is time locked to when the product shipped - people like myself who fly online use current real world charts, which need the correct navdata cycle in the FMC. (it's what the ATC is going off of too)FS's database does not contain DPs and STARs either, only IAPs...Ryan

Hi,The PMDG gurus may correct me if I am wrong but I do not think SU2 will include a navaids database. What I have heard is that Terry is working on a set of terminal procedures based on current charts and the new PMDG syntax. Well, in a not too distant future we (I and a couple of friends), hope to create some application which will allow the creation, conversion and update of terminal procedures not only for PMDG but also for PSS and the forthcoming PIC2. It will be based on DAFIF datas as well as 424 compliant Airac cycles.The solution to the FS9 navaids database will be to create a set of replacement BGLs which can be updated. This is something which has been thought about and I think it will also materialize sometime down the road. There should not be any copyright issue as long as the original Jeppesen database introduced by Microsoft is not altered.I guess at this stage patience is the word. Nothing can be done overnight especially when you realize the amount of compilation work involved.Michael

My thoughts:-http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...topic_id=162153What do you think?Regards

At this point this thread is making no sense to me at all - sorry, not what I was hoping for. What I am indicating is that I fear that what we have in the making is a mishmash jumbled approach to making a database set for the PMDG FMC that may or may not match either realworld, the FS world or again worse - not be coordinated amongst itself.PMDG, this is a simple curiosity question and is not critical, feel free to respond whenever you get time (if ever).Can someone from PMDG please clarify this for me, possibly by responding to the list below please? Maybe these answers will avaiable in the SU2 package read.me?For the upcoming SU2, the following is utilizedNAVDATA; (waypoints, airports, fixes and routes)this info comes from(?):and is current to this date:SID/STAR;this info comes from(?):and is current to this date:APPROACH/MA;this info comes from(?):and is current to this date:

I'm not PMDG, but am an SU2 beta tester. (I have also written my own DAFIF to PMDG SID/STAR/Approach converter output comparable to Terry's.)>For the upcoming SU2, the following is utilized>>NAVDATA; (waypoints, airports, fixes and routes)>this info comes from(?):>and is current to this date:I don't think this is part of SU2. I think this comes from Richard. I think the latest he released will continue to be available. 0312?>SID/STAR;>this info comes from(?):>and is current to this date:DAFIF 0311 or 0312. I can't remember which Terry's converter is using.>>APPROACH/MA;>this info comes from(?):>and is current to this date:DAFIF 0311 or 0312.The SIDSTARs that come with SU2 are self-sufficient and do not depend on the NAVDATA for navaid and waypoint lat/lons. All navaids and waypoints referenced in the procedures are defined (as FIXes) within the SIDSTARs themselves. We had a fair bit of debate on this topic and this seems to result in less sensitivity as to which version of NAVDATA is installed.I believe NAVDATA is still used for airport/runway data, navaid frequencies, as well as airways.Hope this helps.Lee Hetherington (KBED)

Mike, I do not know for certain, but reading other posts in the forum I reckonFor the upcoming SU2, the following is utilizedNAVDATA; (waypoints, airports, fixes and routes)this info comes from(?): DAFIF AIRAC - via www.navdata.atand is current to this date:AIRAC 0312SID/STAR;this info comes from(?):DAFIF AIRAC - converted by Terryand is current to this date:AIRAC 0312APPROACH/MA;this info comes from(?):DAFIF AIRAC - converted by Terryand is current to this date:AIRAC 0312Hopefully the Navdata site will return full time in the future for the basic Navdata updates. I have looked at UK charts, and am contemplating doing a full set of Procedures from them, followed by regular updates. Once the basic set is done the updates are pretty easy to do.

Hello Mike,I feel that we should be using as near as possible real world procedures.Navdata: in the real world is updated monthly in the AIRAC Cycles, current AIRAC-Cycle: 0312 (Nov/27/2003 - Dec/24/2003). Data is available from http://www.navdata.at/ . The future of Navdata has been well discussed recently in the forum and Richard is on a well earned break at the moment.Sid/Stars files: will be available from the PMDG site I believe, for SU2 on its release. The DAFIF data limitations have also been discussed regularly in the forum. Theres a thread listing user sid/stars files sites too. I have covered on my site mainly UK sid/stars and a few other ones too. I try to update these as changes in the airac and procedures affect them.Approach/Ma: arent available in the current version, but will form part of the sid/star file for SU2.Simon

Hello MarkI have already done a great deal of work on the UK sid/stars and update them as changes occur.Heres the link to my site http://homepage.ntlworld.com/simon.butler2...usefulfiles.htmSimon

Simon,what others have you done for SU2 apart from the ones on your site?I was planning on doing all 737 capable airports as a base file along with a few other surprises.Most of the monthly updates that occur involve Radial or HDG changes and little else - so are real easy to do.

Hello MarkMost of the hard work has been done writing these files from the charts. The big UK ones as you can see mostly covered now, and I am gradually working through the rest of the likely 737 destinations in the UK.I agree monthly updates are fairly easy to do, but not always just radial or hdg changes. Recent waypoint changes/additions at Liverpool, Heathrow, Luton, Stansted and Prestwick.Just concerned that you were about to 're-invent the wheel' and theres so many other airports that need files done fully.Simon

Defo not reinventing the wheel.Will see what you have for SU2 before I proceed with anything.