Hi Norwegian.no(Pst You have to sign every post with your name.)According to the Boeing manuals I have here, and B. Bulfer ther edoesn't seem to be anything like you are describing. I think this was something not properly programmed in the PMDG 600/700 series. The only thing I can find is that if the restriction speed is lower than min manoevering speed for current flaps then VNAV will command min manoevering speed and will announce XXX/FLAPS on the CLB page on the CDU. It's a minimum speed protection, not a over-speed protection.But I'm sure the real drivers will chip in here and correct me if I'm reading this the wrong way. ;-)Cheers,

I'm sorry Lee I did not mean to give you that impression. I was in a hurry out the door and should have reviewed what that sounded like. Once again sorry for the aburpt sounding tone. The 600-700 did have it the way you say and there has been much talk about this. It was stated that flaps 5 max speed is 250 knots so it appears this was changed to mimic that behavior. Now I have put some questions regarding the FMC displaying flaps driven speeds on the climb page that VNAV does not adhere to (your question) but does adhere to maximum flap speed (i.e. 250/10000' =250 MAX flaps 5). I am confused as to why the driven speeds are there for approach and VNAV adheres to them and not for TO. It can be only 2 things here, one, the flaps driven speeds for TO should not be there or VNAV is not adhereing to them correctly. As it is right now VNAV will not overspeed but we need to find out just why it is the way it is on the PMDG.[h4]Best Wishes,Randy J. Smithhttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/betaimg.jpgAMD 64 3200+ | ASUS KV8 DELUXE | GFORCE 5700 ULTRA @535/1000 | WD SATA 80 GIG | 512 DDR 400 |

Norwegian, We have our own NG pilots on the beta team (more then 1) and one of them has stated that the maximum flap speed for flaps 5 is 250 knots when this was discussed. Now I ALWAYS recommend that one does NOT engage VNAV prior to flaps retraction speed (you want to talk realistic then let's talk) where does any SOP state to engage VNAV prior to bugs up? LNAV @ 400' but I have not seen anyone go straight into VNAV. How will you perform a noise reduction TO with VNAV at N1?? Truth is that you cannot. BUG UP - FLAPS UP - VNAV or..... [h4]Best Wishes,Randy J. Smithhttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/betaimg.jpgAMD 64 3200+ | ASUS KV8 DELUXE | GFORCE 5700 ULTRA @535/1000 | WD SATA 80 GIG | 512 DDR 400 |

Randy,To emphasise what you have said. In the real world we never select VNAV prior to flap retraction.Rgds,Brad Marsh

Hi Randy,This is turning into a good conversation. Here is the answer to your question about using VNAV during departure.http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/74437.gifAs to my other point, If I set 210/3000 in the SPD REST section of the climb page, then I wouldn't expect the autopilot to move the speedbug to 250 below 3000ft.

Randy, why are you so often using capitals, lots of '!' and '?' together with an attitude that is very easy to misunderstand?

LOL maybe Richard. Certainly it is not meant to imply that but hey we are all adults here ;-) I think I have picked up some habits from pilots I know! Regardless I see many !!??? in this forum daily and do not take such offence at someone using CAPS LOCK or anything else. [h4]Best Wishes,Randy J. Smithhttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/betaimg.jpgAMD 64 3200+ | ASUS KV8 DELUXE | GFORCE 5700 ULTRA @535/1000 | WD SATA 80 GIG | 512 DDR 400 |

I have the same AOM...and I follow these HIGHLY realistic TO procedures...And like Randy said above, NEVER EVER seen VNAV engaged before flap retraction... Always flown manually or in FL CH (AP in CMD or not) to flap retraction speed etc...So, the way the way the PMDG is acting now with VNAV on TO seems REALLY realistic to me...

Ok, here is the bottomline. So people do it different ways and everyone here has there own SOP. Based on what I posted, it is readily apparent to me that at least the plane can do it.What I want to know is, all standard operating procedures aside, what does the aircraft do...period.Thanks!

Hey Jeff I think I should also say that it is possible on the real one, I never said that one could not do it only that I do not ever see any real pilots doing this. Ok here is the deal. You will either start flap retraction at 1000' AFE or 3000' AFE (5000' at KSAN I think) and you should be flying at V2 + 20-40 (depending) so for you who want to use VNAV (and do not want 250 KNOTS) just place a speed restriction (like 210/3000 etc) on the CLB page @ 3 L LSK and be done with it. I do think this is realistic...[h4]Best Wishes,Randy J. Smithhttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/betaimg.jpgAMD 64 3200+ | ASUS KV8 DELUXE | GFORCE 5700 ULTRA @535/1000 | WD SATA 80 GIG | 512 DDR 400 |

Hi guys,Thanks for all the replies to my post. Thanks for the apology Randy. I knew you probably didnt mean to sound quite so abrupt. It just read that way, thats all. No worries though now.This is turning out to be a very interesting post by the way .... I didnt realise there was so many ways to fly a departure in a 737.Regards,Lee.

Just tried a VNAV Pitch departure and something seems to be wrong...Here it is...133100 lbs on TO with 133 134 142 for Vspeeds...Flaps 5 TO.On FMC : L2 250 kts, L3 210/3000 (for the restriction)...Take off and climb at V2+20 to 1000 AGL. Here Flaps 1 and engage VNAV (but still following FD - AP not engaged). At this moment L3 changes from 210/3000 to 245/FLAPS (speed bug to 245!!!)...:( Only when select Flaps Up L3 goes back to 210/3000 !!!As far as I can remember, this was working fine in 6/700.Tested on a 737-800 w/2D cockpit...

>HMM..>Gents I think the problem here is the gap between the real>world and the sim world. May I offer a small guide I have>written for real world pilots new to the type available under>the 737 Info section at:>http://homepage.powerup.com.au/~speedy/ or better yet read it>direct here at:>http://homepage.powerup.com.au/~speedy/737...ific%20Blue.doc>>First off the speeds shown for each Flap position are NOT>retraction speeds, they are FMC computed speeds that provide a>manoeuvring margin at that flap setting ie you can roll to a>30 degree bank with a 15 degree overshoot in level flight and>not have the stick shaker go off. So each of these speeds is>called the Flap 'x' Min Manoeuvring Speed>>That said:>IRL we will normally take off in LNAV and TOGA. LNAV will be>selected during the pre-flight set-up of the MCP and TOGA will>appear when you tap the TOGA buttons to start the takeoff>roll.>>In the companies I have flown with we do NOT use VNAV for>takeoff and I will check if it is available at all in the 737>NG.>>After takeoff we will climb in TO/GA which will command the>autothrust and pitch modes to give the selected takeoff thrust>and a pitch attitude to hold the MCP selected V2 speed up to>V2+20.>>We climb at this speed to Flap Retraction Altitude (in most>places about 3000' AGL for noise abatement) and we then do>what is called 'Bugging Up' ie the MCP speed is set to the>Minimum Clean speed. This causes the Flight Director to>command a pitch down to about 10 degrees and the aircraft to>accelerate.>>As the aircraft accelerates though the Flap 5 Minimum>Manoeuvring Speed we select Flap 1, on accelerating through>the Flap 1 Minimum Manoeuvring Speed we select Flaps Up.>>When the flaps are up and no lights showing the PNF will>select the Gear Handle to OFF and the Autobrake switch to OFF.>Only then will the aircraft be accelerated to climb speed in>either VNAV or MCP Speed, generally 250kts below 10000'. The>reason for this is so that should the PNF inadvertently select>the Gear Down you will not be above the maximum extension>speed for it.>>This enough info? Hope it makes things clearer rather than>muddy the waters further.>>Rgds,>Brad Marsh>>http://homepage.powerup.com.au/~speedy/pic...Hawaii_Crew.jpgThat's one great looking bird Brad - do you fly for Pacific Blue?RgdsNeil

That's the problem I was referring to earlier before getting side tracked with Randy :)

This is my two cents worth,The PMDG guys got it right. Pushing VNAV above 400 feet RA will send the airspeed bug to 250kts. Thats right.It is not a standard takeoff technique to engaged VNAV just after takeoff and when the flaps are still down even though it can be done.Boeing says to engage VNAV above 3000 feet mainly so you don't exceed flap speeds (could takeoff with flaps 15) and don't bust Class D airspace speed limits.You former PIC and 744 drivers need to learn the proper takeoff technique when flying the NG.Very happy with this product. Good Job PMDG!Floyd