Hi all 737NG Drivers. I see some confusion and misconceptions about the SID/STAR/IAP database made for the PMDG 737NG. I thought I would have a go at explaining how to avoid the recurring problems I see here and in the email I get. First, an overall explanation of what is available, where to get the data and how to use it. The SID/STAR/IAP database is derived from the DAFIF (Digital Aeronautical Flight Information File) database. It is the only on-line, worldwide, free digital database I know of. This database is made for the U.S. military but does not contain all the SIDs/STARs/IAPs that are available in the civilian world. My guess is because only airports and SIDs/STARs/IAPs that may be used by the military are included. This unfortunately leaves many SIDs/STARs/IAPs missing, especially outside of the U.S.. The DAFIF, despite it's shortcomings though, contains about 1740 airports, is current and is updated on a 28 day cycle.If you just bought the PMDG 737NG. First things first. The SID/STAR/IAP database that ships with the PMDG 737NG is an old cycle. It contains errors and outdated data and will cause problems if not updated. So, one of the first things you should do after installing the PMDG 737NG is to go to http://www.navdata.at and download the current AIRAC cycle for navigational data and then go to the PMDG site or my site at http://home.sw.rr.com/filesherenow/index.html and download the current SID/STAR/IAP cycle. Obviously you must then install both databases. Because the DAFIF does not have all the worlds airports there are a few individuals that have stepped forward to write SIDs/STARs/IAPs for missing airports or to add more procedures to existing airports. I have a tutorial (Making 737NG Procedures) in the avsim file library for those of you that would like to try your hand at designing SIDs/STARs/IAPs. Some of these individuals have their own web site where you can download their work while others upload their work to http://www.navdata.at. At this site one can then download individual airports or download an AIO (All in one) file which contains all the uploaded airports in one file. Herein is one misconception. Some people think that since www.navdata.at provides current navdata he also produces a complete set of current SID/STAR/IAPs and distributes them in that AIO file. Not true. Www.navdata.at does not produce any SIDs/STARs/IAPs. It provides a much needed central place to upload SID/STAR/IAPs that other people make. So, that AIO file is not a complete set of SID/STAR/IAPs and second, it is only a compilation of those files uploaded by others. Also keep in mind that the files uploaded to www.navdata.at may not be current as it is up to the file's author to keep the data up to date and that might not happen. Never the less this is a valuable service, just be aware of these limitations. In actuality it takes getting my SID/STAR/IAPs, the www.navdata.at AIO file and any other private site airports to get the maximum available airports.Once downloaded they must be installed. The proper way to update the 737NG SID/STAR/IAPs is to install my set by overwriting the previous cycle in the FlightSim/PMDG/Sidstars folder. Next install the AIO file, overwriting my airports. Lastly, install any airports from other private sites, also overwriting my airports and possibly the AIO airports. You may or may not want to overwrite some of the AIO file airports, however, based on when those files were written, their accuracy and completeness. Whew, done.Now a few problems that keep cropping up.1. Runways not found. A common problem if the default SID/STAR/IAP database is not updated. This can also happen if the AIRAC cycle is not the same as the SID/STAR/IAP cycle number because airport runway numbers change periodically from one cycle to the next. The cure, update the AIRAC and or SID/STAR/IAP database to the same cycle number. Don't forget to check the other 3rd party airports too. They may be using old runway numbers.2. Missing SIDs/STARs/IAPs but some do show. This can be caused by the restricted DAFIF database. The cure, either find SIDs/STARs/IAPs someone else has written or write the missing SID/STAR/IAPs yourself.3. No airports or SIDs/STARs/IAPs show up. The common problem here is that the files did not get installed properly. Usually they are put in a wrong folder. For my files read the "Read This.TXT" or "A Must Read This.TXT" file for installation instructions and lots of other useful stuff. This same problem shows up for the navdata database too. Usually what happens is the installer was not pointed to the master FlightSim folder but to the FMCWP folder.4. Lastly, if you get an FMC error, don't overlook the possibility that the SID/STAR/IAP could have an error in it. In this case you'll need to write the author for assistance or fix it yourself.I hope this helps decrease the potential headaches newbies find when flying the PMDG 737NG.Regards to allTerry YinglingAuthor of DAFIF proceduresAuthor of Making 737NG Procedures tutorial

Hi Terry,Excellent post. Hopefully it will help confused users. It may be a good idea to post this message on the NAVDATA forum too.To PMDG: can you please pin this message at the top of the forum.Michael

I am printing this now so I can study it. I think many of us are totally confused by this topic and your post certainly will be a big help for many of us in understanding all of it. Thanks!!!

Terry,I'm not sure if the frustrations I vented directly to you - among other causes - prompted you to write this excellent and much needed thread.I'm in the office now, but surely when I get home I'll try to understand it all and see if I can still land in KMIA...The best service anyone could do in this forum is not to forget the newbies and or the poor fellows who live zillion miles from the next guy who flies FS9...Thanks, or, if you are of Chinese origin, "Tse-tse" (thank you in Mandarin) or "M'goy say" (thank you in Cantonese).BPilot([email protected])

This topic sould be made a sticky on the forum and added to the OIC on the website...

Thank you very much for this post....and all the work you do on the procedures.

Guten Tag Gentlemen.Is here any soul, who can put Terry's excellent briefing into German.The matter is too touchy. A slight mistranslation couldincrease confusion.Regards, G

Thank you Terry for this clarification which does explain the mystery of the missing SID/STAR/IAPs. And also a big thank you for the work you do on an individual and volunteer basis for all of us users.There is one question which remains unanswered though, whereas we have a worldwide database of VOR, ADF, Fixes in our FMC monthly updated with the AIRAC (hats off to all who do this out of passion and service spirit), I have yet to nail down the reason why the ILS frequencies are not part of the same process even WITHOUT the corresponding STARs. Whereas SID/STARs need to be written either from Dafif, or individually made, as you pointed out (and this is a huge task), ILS frequencies could be part of the regular NAV database update like VORs and ADFs.That is what confuses me, when I select an airport on my FMC to see all runways listed and in many places, outside the US, no ILS available (once again not the STARs, I understand and do not mind that). In a previous message on this topic, I had listed a number of differences between the PSS and the PMDG databases where ILS were missing for one and present for the other. One might argue that ILS frequencies without the corresponding STARs would not be realistic, then no ILS at all is not any better.This is the real confusion, in my case, since I know that if I want SIDs and STARs at certain undocumented airports in the Dafif, I can write them myself.This observation should not, in any way whatsoever, be interpreted as a criticism, but is merely a question for which I cannot figure a proper answer, and I know many simmers who have been struggling with this as well.

Hi Jean Luc,As you rightly pointed out the terminal procedures produced by Terry are compiled from a number of DAFIF databases. What you may not know is that the AIRACS are also based on DAFIF datas plus a number of other datas then cross-checked with the infamous outdated FS9 database. The result is that a number of ILS are not appearing due to the inherent deficiencies of the DAFIF datas as well as FS9.Having said that each AIRAC cycle includes an updated wpNavAPT file which lists the specifics of most runways worldwide. Now, where ever DAFIF shows an ILS it is included and updated in that file. So my point is that ILS are current if and only if shown in the DAFIF databases.As to the PSS AIRAC it was originally made from a database which was at that time more comprehensive than the DAFIF database. Then it has been updated according to the 28 days cycles with DAFIF datas only. Therefore it is almost certain that there are more ILS in the PSS AIRAC whereby there may be some outdated by now if not included in the DAFIF datas used for updates.Jean Luc, it is almost inpossible at this stage to compile an accurate AIRAC for copyright reasons. The only consistent available source is DAFIF which as said above shows deficiencies but is better than nothing. What can be done on an individual basis is to edit the wpNavAPT file and update it manually for your preferred airports. This assuming you have access to the latest accurate datas you are missing. One problem you may encounter though is that FS9 uses a totally outdated database (encrypted bgl format) which cannot be updated, then if you update one runway manually for PMDG or PSS purposes you may have a conflict in FS9.Tough call I admit, we all hope Microsoft will come up with a more flexible way of updating navaids in the future which will allow more accurate datas and easier updates.Michael

Many thanks for this detailed explanation Michael. This issue is now clear. Let's hope that FS2006/10 will take care of this. In the meantime, I use FSNav to tell me the frequency I should use for my landing with PMDG.Best regards,

Hi Fellow simmersAbout a month ago now i looked in on a thread about sids/stars and somone very helpful took some screen shots to show you how to install the AIRAC and Sids/Stars...It was very easy to follow and i am trying to find this thread again.I have looked at all the posts upto page 23 but i am unable to find it..If it is you or you know who it was who did this post i would really appreciate a link to the thread so i can print it out for keeps.One pic showed the 6 files that should be in a folder...and another one showed how to install the Airac correctly.Regards Paul Teasdale

I'm always on this forum and at the PMDG site. I was familiar with the navdata.at site but never knew about the http://home.sw.rr.com/filesherenow/index.html site. This will surely eliminate many of my "not in database" errors. Thank you.Ed Lin

Hi,Since Terry wrote this post there have been a few new threads requesting help for the very issues explained in details by Terry.Is there any reason why the moderators of this forum do not have yet pinned this most helpful thread at the beginning of the forum?One could argue that a thourough reading of Terry's explanation by as many PMDG users as possible could minimize the number of requests for assistance on that subject and make PMDG products look even better to the sim community. Is that not as good marketing as to pin on top of the forum the many awards PMDG rightly got?Michael

Hi Terry,As your the one how made all these procedures, I've a question for you.Look at the first screenshot and you see the IAP for GBYD(Banjul, Ghambia). It says from BJ VOR TRK 139 for atleast 2 MIN and descent to 1600. Am I right??? Ofcourse I am. :( Then it says to fly TRK 321. Which is the ILS inboundcourse. But when I use these charts to make IAPs I get a strange LEFT TURN on the ND while it should be a Right turn to intercept the ILS. Check out the Second Screenshot and you will see wat I mean. The yellow arrows tell's you the turn procedure according to the FMC. How do I make correct procedures for this sort of approach??PS. I added a 3th pic to show you the LATERAL proc. so, you won't think that I'm wrong. It gives you a good overvieuw of the IAP for RWY32.Thank you,http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/97711.jpghttp://forums.avsim.net/user_files/97712.jpghttp://forums.avsim.net/user_files/97713.jpg

Terry:Just working through some of the fine points - which of the 23 ARINC leg types (or equivalent) are supported, and how do you handle a leg type that is not supported (e.g., RF ...I think)? Also - any idea on which leg types not currently supported will be added in the future?Thanks for the update - very useful.Todd