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payware quality

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I started a thread yesterday about a general complaint concerning the quality (or lack thereof) of many addon aircraft http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.phpaz=show...&topic_id=15951 I noted one exception. I just wanted to say here that the one exception is PMDG. I have yet to acquire an addon with the level of quality of the 737 series, or the level of honest support of PMDG. In fact, I now measure any addon aircraft against the PMDG standard. My frustration is that they all so far have come up short. Keep up the good work; you've set the platinum standard for flight sim in my book. Mike Monce

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Guest tango_d

Right behind you on that Mike.Love it !!Eddy

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Mike, I could not agree with you more :-) PMDG's work is just great. When they won the AVSIM Bravo Zulu award at the conference this fall, everyone there commented that they deserved it.PMDG keep setting that bar higher and higher!!!!!!!Bob

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Guest nattydread

I also agree. By far the biggest reason why I bought FS2004, was because PMDG was making add ons for it. Im a product of their 777 add on for FLYII and dreaded coming over to MSFS. I stopped doing genral aviation/commerical flightsims for about 3 years because it.I went to PMDG's site one day on a whim and saw they building for FS2004 and I told myself, "It's time!" Now if only the MSFS dev team would listen to the needs of PMDG to better the sim and their add-on needs for furture releases. The PMDG models are only as good as the limits of the MSFS code.If you ask me PMDG needs to get its own version of MSFS. Make a MSFS:Profesional Edition that has additional and improved code, fidelity and physics so that PMDG(and to be fair, other 3rd party add-ons) can make even better add-on models.Shoot call it MSFS2006:PMDG Professional Edition if they want, a little less fair to teh otehr add-ons, but hey PMDG deserves it.

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Ooohh that would be good. Is Rob listening? ;-) I followed along your path also. When PMDG switched to MSFS I also switched from FLY. Having a new computer that could handle MSFS helped to make the decision easier also. (which is what makes me mad when a develper blames my system of 3.2 G, 264 MB GeForce, and 768 MB of RAM; I mean I bought the system entirely for flight simming). Mike

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Guest nattydread

I still came close not buying FS2004...I held out aslong as I could but PMDG kept calling my name. I was really upset to hear that MSFS dummy-downed there flight physics code and that add-ons would be forced to build there models off of the same constraints(I still firmly believe FLYII had a much better flight model). I figured, even with a less than desirable in game flight model in FS2004, that PMDG would build unsurpassed add-ons. I still think about the FLYII 777, I miss it alot.

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>I started a thread yesterday about a general complaint>concerning the quality (or lack thereof) of many addonI read your complaint and (as I wrote over there) unless you share with us the name of this product so we can see for ourselves whether you have a point (or possibly not) this discussion is pointless. Unless of course the whole thing is imaginary and it only serves to whip up some payware bashing.Michael J.WinXP-Home SP2,AMD64 3500+,Abit AV8,Radeon X800Pro,36GB Raptor,1GB PC3200,Audigy 2

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This is one opinion, yours, and I am sure that of many others too, but I would humbly urge you to avoid the "PMDG" claustrophobia syndrom, it is of good taste obviously to congratulate PMDG for the splendid work they do and the outstanding products they deliver, but concurrently, it is a matter of fairness to accept that you may not know well all products available on the market today.I could name at least three very complex add-ons that would easily rank to the same level of quality (including support) as PMDG's, but this would be out of place on this forum. We must bear in mind that this sort of comparisons are interesting as a poll, but should not be construed as hard cast judgements, merely opinions. Everything starts with the kind of aircraft you like to fly, if the 737 NG is your plane then obviously PMDG comes at the top of the list by far.Yes PMDG is excellent and deserve the recognition they received, and so are a number of other payware developers that - may be - chose to model an airplane you have no personal interest in!Happy landings!

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Guest Andrea

Mike,I agree that PMDG forum and assistance are outstanding but take into accont some other examples of very well done products with very good and prompt assistance on the web:- My Traffic- Ultimate Traffic 2004- Peter Dowson FSUIPC (he is the most gentleman in the web)- Phoenix Software- PAI forums- etc.Andreahttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/800driver.jpg

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Guest Buck Bolduc

I have both releases of PMDG's 737 series, they are excellent!Also have RFP's 747-200, this is a different beast entirly, but very well done nevertheless.I just purchased PSS's Concorde, nice aircraft, very well done. The panel work is something to behold, IMHO.When PMDG releases it's 747-400 I will purchase it, have a lot of faith in Capt. Randazzo & Co.The captain stated that the development community was a small one, everyone does the best they can, sometimes support and upgrades are as important as the original release.I have a habit of not knocking something unless I can do better myself.Regards

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Guest Buck Bolduc

>I have both releases of PMDG's 737 series, they are>excellent!>>Also have RFP's 747-200, this is a different beast entirly,>but very well done nevertheless.>>I just purchased PSS's Concorde, nice aircraft, very well>done. The panel work is something to behold, IMHO.>>When PMDG releases it's 747-400 I will purchase it, have a lot>of faith in Capt. Randazzo & Co.>>The captain stated that the development community was a small>one, everyone does the best they can, sometimes support and>upgrades are as important as the original release.>>I have a habit of not knocking something unless I can do>better myself, when it comes to freeware.Payware does require a level of programming beyond what I can do, did some Lattic C on the Amiga, seems like a million years ago.Anyway, I'm happy with the stuff I got so far. >>Regards>

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>I read your complaint and (as I wrote over there) unless you>share with us the name of this product so we can see for>ourselves whether you have a point (or possibly not) this>discussion is pointless. Unless of course the whole thing is>imaginary and it only serves to whip up some payware bashing.> I really do not appreciate your insinuations. As I said in the other forum, giving specifics would only start a developer flame war. Imaginary?? Have you just looked at the side by side comparison of the CS and DF 727's on the other forum? Were all those people saying the CS 727 was flawed making things up?? This forum is not appropriate for my specifics, but I'm going to send you a private message with the details. Decide for yourself, but leave the personal attacks out of it. Mike

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Guys,when talking about payware quality do not forget to mention Flight1's ATR, which plays in the same league as the PMDG Boeings.I bought all the PMDG Boeings and the ATR. They are all equally good and I'm flying them both right now, having a lot of fun.Alex

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Guest BernBear

Mike,Hell bent on not buying any payware planes for FS9, I finally caved in for the PMDG 737-6/700 after reading all the rave reviews.I later bought a few other addon planes, both commercial and GA and you're right, nothing even comes close. I know it's not going to happen anytime soon, but I'd just love to see a PMDG quality single or twin turboprop (e.g. Meridian, TBM700C2, Pilatus-PC12, any King Air) or any decent Biz-Jet like anything from Bombardier including the Lears, Falcons, recent model Gulfstreams, maybe the Embraer Legacy. Of course not Express but fully featured models complete with fairly complete systems and accurately modeled FMC (the Cessna Jets of an othewise fine business aircraft addon maker that starts with an E are definitely lacking in that area).Until somebody comes up with something in that area that comes within reach of PMDG I will simnply stick with the PMDG Boeings, there are now two, with the BBJ hopefully three we can look forward to! Best RegardsMax (Bern, LSZB)http://www.hifisim.com/images/as2004betateam.jpg http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/800driver.jpg

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>but I'd just love to see a PMDG>quality single or twin turboprop (e.g. Meridian, TBM700C2,>Pilatus-PC12, any King Air) You say you bought some payware but nothing comes close...OK, I am not going to argue with you that PMDG737 is excellent but it all sounds to me like you have been buying wrong payware. Have you heard about Flight1 Meridian? Probably 9.95 (out of 10) on the scale of completeness and quality. Or Flight1's ATR? They are all in the league of PMDG737 in the opinion of many. If Flight1's Meridian still falls short for you then I am afraid the real Meridian won't satisfy you either.Michael J.WinXP-Home SP2,AMD64 3500+,Abit AV8,Radeon X800Pro,36GB Raptor,1GB PC3200,Audigy 2

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I'm with you Michael, Although PMDG make great top rate aircraft they certainly are not the only ones that do. PIC V2 (LDS Team) have a winner before it reaches the starting gates! Flight 1/DreamFleet have wonderful add-ons regardless of some 1 timer posters of late who talk like they are someone. Best Wishes,[h4]Randy J. Smith[/h4]http://www.rawbw.com/~bdoolin/shinault/southparkcartmad.gif[h3]PMDG 747![/h3]Caution! Not a real pilot, but do play one on TV ;-)ASUS KV8 DLX | AMD 3200 64 | 1 GIG PC 3200 DDR | GIGABYTE 5700 ULTRA | ViewSonic VP192b 19" |

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Guest BernBear

Michael,You got me there! The F1 Meridian is the only other payware plane that I really like, which is why I didn't include it in the turboprpop wish list :-) I actually have a few hours in real Meridians and I would agree with you that the F1 Meridian comes very close to the real thing within the limitations of FS (The F1 Meridian has a tendency to run very hot on climb out, limiting climb power, which is virutally unheard of in the real thing but I am told that is limitation of the FS turboprop model)I can't speak for the F1 ATR, since i haven't tried that yet.I also can't say much about pre-FS9 addons, since I didn't start buying payware addons until FS9. I didn't mean to make my statement absolute, since it is merely my subjective opinion, but I'll continue to say that the PMDG birds are the best heavy iron that I have tried so far.Best RegardsMax (Bern, LSZB)http://www.hifisim.com/images/as2004betateam.jpg http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/800driver.jpg

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>which is why I didn't include it in>the turboprpop wish list :-) Max,But you certainly did, read your post again .. ;-)I agree with you F1's Merdian has ITT usually too hot and its secondary altimeter has nonsensically spinning needle.Michael J.WinXP-Home SP2,AMD64 3500+,Abit AV8,Radeon X800Pro,36GB Raptor,1GB PC3200,Audigy 2

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Guest jpsulliv

Well, I'll just add my comments in here, since I read this every day and haven't posted anything in like two years..I think PMDG has the highest-quality product, followed by PSS.I don't buy a lot of add-ons for MSFS, simply because I don't have a lot of time to "fly" and frankly, learning how to do it properly has always frustrated me, what with all these tutorials that tell you WHAT to do but never WHY.My first payware add-on was PSS's 747 and 777 for FS2000, which were excellent and I flew them habitually. But I was always kind of put off by their posts in their own forum, which seems to hold the attitude that the customers are just whiny little babies. Then came FS2002, and a new (and long in the making) patch was required to get it to work. In the meantime, I was exploring Fly!II since PMDG was making a B777 for it, which I promptly bought. I liked Fly! II quite a lot in spite of all its problems, and I felt sorry that PMDG had put all of this work into it which must have required a huge effort to workaround what was broken in Fly! II.When the PSS patch to get the 747 and 777 to work in FS2002 was ready, it seemed that suddenly I needed much better hardware to get it to run properly, as they had used the glass cockpit stuff from their new Airbus products, and you had to crank up the resolution to make it even legible. I was unwilling to spend a few thousand on a new PC, and besides, the PSS A320 was buggy, so I quit "flying" altogether for a spell.Then I had some money and some free time working away from home on an assignment, so I bought the PS1 747 simulator, which I still have and fly at work when no one is looking. But being a DOS-based affair, it's really quite painful to get it to work on a modern system. I had the joystick working for awhile, then it magically quit and I've never gotten it to work quite right since.Without much heavy iron left to fly, I bought the PSS A330 and A340 when they came out, and they're okay, but I'm not really an Airbus kind of guy.Remembering PMDGs first product (the B747-400 manual, was it?) I decided to try the first 737NG product. I was immediately amazed and overwhelmed at how difficult it is to fly. It reminded me of my time in the United 747 simulator, which I thought I could handle after the PSS 747 and PS1. I only crashed twice (once on takeoff, once on landing), but I learned very quickly that a real heavy jet is REAL hard to fly. A REAL simulator with an instructor next to me was the best couple of hundred dollars I ever spent.Anyway, I bought the 737NG/800/900 not long ago and I've been pretty happy with it, although I've been having a hard time getting the hang of it. What I particularly appreciate about this product is the depth of detail, such as the very functional FMC. Of the products I've used, only the PS1 FMC simulates more.So when I saw that PMDG is going to give us a B747-400, I thought "this is so cool, I have to go to the bathroom!" The screenshots are very impressive - better than any FS add-on I've seen, I think. I'm hoping it will turn out like a very much updated PS1 747-400 in operation and realism. All I can do now is wait. :(

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Hi,Seems that you're not familiar with 767PIC or the upcoming Level-D Simulations 767-300 :).Tero

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I would not let a thread like this close without a mention of one of the leading sim available today: 747-200 RFP, the only 747 available with the full complexity of virtually all systems. And a support second to none... It would appear very few of you tried it, that's probably why it was mentioned only once sandwiched in many others. If you know how to fly it, the 744 will be no challenge for you!

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Guest jpsulliv

I've considered the 747-200 RFP several times, actually, and I remember it was very well reviewed everywhere I read about it.My only reservation is I'm a glass cockpit-only kind of guy. One of my first good simulators was Falcon 4.0, which I learned to fly by instruments only - no computers. So you're right - if you can fly that, a 744 should be no problem.I guess I'd better give the 747-200 RFP another look.

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Guest jpsulliv

>Hi,>>Seems that you're not familiar with 767PIC or the upcoming>Level-D Simulations 767-300 :).>>TeroI own 767PIC, but it doesn't work in FS2004. :( I guess I could always do a side-by-side install of FS2002 and FS2004. Unfortunately, I have precious little time to fly anything these days, let alone mess with the computer.

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