I'm happy to see that Stephan is getting some real financial and tech support for his new Navdata submissions. I the meantime, although I've registered for his site, I would appreciate hearing comments from those currently using the commerical Navdata product, and how you feel the 10.06 is working out and what costs are involved.Ron - CYEG

Costs are relative to how much you put up front.. their system is to buy credits up front and draw down the account for purchases. Minimum credit purchase is 100 for 20 Euro. (0.20 Euro per credit). They charge 20 credits per cycle, so cost is 4.00 Euro/cycle. That's about US$5.07 per cycle. I haven't been able to satisfy their credit card entry form yet (that's frustrating) and I think the price is probably three times as high as it should be, but I've only purchased FAA digital data and the much of the world is going to user fees so maybe the price is reasonable. I just heard from them and they want me to use PayPal, which is guaranteed to result in a lot of email spam but I'll give it a try.

Correction: 100 for 10 Euro. US$2.54/cycle... a little better.

It's $13.01 US for 100credits but if you buy 300 you get a discount of 33% i believe it is. I used pay pal to buy a 100 credits and had no problem also used some of my credits to buy the nDAC (Navigraph Digital Aeronautical Charts)for a bunch of airports. im real happy with the program

Glad to hear that. After not getting my credit card to work at their site, they responded that they are getting too many of these incidents. Also, after Paypal took my money I didn't get the credits I purchased. Still waiting for a response from them on this one. Maybe they're having a bad day.You can get digital charts for free from www.naco.faa.gov

Does this data also include a complete database of SIDS/STARS? Otherwise I wouldn't bother purchasing it because so far I've had no problems with the old navdata.

No, no SID/STARS are avilable as yet and the old ones doesn't work properly as from the demo cycle 0609. The reason being that the previos source DAFIF is incompatible with the new EAG source. However, this will be fixed in due course and will probably work even better, as EAG provides FMC data IRL to the airline industry. EAG, formerly known as SAS flightsupport bought Thales Aeronautical Services Group and changed name to EAG. Very good reputation AFAIK.http://www.euronautical.com/osc/main.asp?display=node&id=20

Glad to report that Navigraph finally got my purchase straightened out.. maybe a 10 min delay after the Paypal transaction or maybe they got my complaint but haven't responded yet. Anyway...Data does not yet include procedures (SIDSTARS). It's in the works.You could continue to use older navdata as long as the places you go haven't had changes. But you'll need to get current to fly into KSEA Seattle-Tacoma because they changed runway numbers.Also, I tested my 34 SIDSTARS and only found one glitch with the new airac... it's a NDB at KMSY New Orleans which needed a minor tweak. KMSY is fixed and uploaded to the AVSIM FS2004 Flight Plans library.All other locations, including KSEA, loaded without error messages.

Hi,Was just discussing this matter with some acquintances online and here our my thoughts on this.I feel that Stephan has the right to turn his activities to a profit because the sources he needs are costing him money nowadays. We feel that PMDG should takeover updating of the airac's and do this at no cost to their customers. I don't know about most of you. But the people I know who fly the PMDG aircraft have paid good money for the product. I think it is normal that suppliers keep their products in working order. Look at microsoft, they publish updates on a weekly basis for free to their paying customers.PMDG has been spoiled in the past by Stephan, he schould have asked them for payment instead they let him do their work at no cost to them.Just my 2 cents, Jasper

Jasper,AFAIK Richard Stefan is not making any money out of this. But if he is, it's well deserved! However, the "business" of making AIRAC's is now managed by a commecial company called Navigraph and as such they must cover their costs for the EAG source, bandwidth, staff and soforth. Nothing to say about that I think.The same goes for PMDG. They are not making aircraft models out of pure good will, they also have to cover the costs of developing them. If they were to provide AIRAC's as well they would have to cover those costs, and there is nothing that says it would come cheaper for us.It's time for people to realize that much of the idealistic spirit is gone. It was good as long as it lasted but accept it as a fact. One of the reasons I think is the never ending demand for this or that from the community, never being satisfied with what they have. And when meeting ever increasing demands for "as real as it gets", the professional skills needed will inevitably cost.Live with it, and be happy that the costs are comparably moderate.

JoHan,If you read my post you will see that I agree with Stephan and navigraph charging for their services.What I'm also saying is that I feel that PMDG should provide the AIRAC's as part of their product for which we have paid. Why is that the products ships with an out of date AIRAC that is never updated via PMDG? Same go's for level-d and others that relied on Stephan for the updates.JasperAgain, no problem paying for things. Just triyng to point out that we actually have already payed for the stuf.

Well your PMDG products fly without the AIRAC doesn't it? I mean it's not essential to get the aircrafts up in the air?The only reason for having updated AIRACs is the "as real as it gets"- experience wether flying on- or offline. And there you are. There was an AIRAC delived with the aircraft model which you can use as long as FS2004ACOF is not updated or replaced with a newer version. I can't see why PMDG should be obliged to keep it updated, as it's not essential for flying the aircraft. It's your own desires and cravings that demands the updates. And that's fine, as long as you can acknowledge that it's not PMDG's or Richard Stefans task or responsibility to fulfil them for free!

>No, no SID/STARS are avilable as yet and the old ones doesn't>work properly as from the demo cycle 0609. The reason being>that the previos source DAFIF is incompatible with the new EAG>source. However, this will be fixed in due course and will>probably work even better, as EAG provides FMC data IRL to the>airline industry. EAG, formerly known as SAS flightsupport>bought Thales Aeronautical Services Group and changed name to>EAG. Very good reputation AFAIK.>>http://www.euronautical.com/osc/main.asp?display=node&id=20I will wait for sid/stars to work before I purchase this product, but I will definately get it once they are working. Until then, looks like I will be stuck using 0608

>JoHan,>>If you read my post you will see that I agree with Stephan and>navigraph charging for their services.>>What I'm also saying is that I feel that PMDG should provide>the AIRAC's as part of their product for which we have paid.>Why is that the products ships with an out of date AIRAC that>is never updated via PMDG? Same go's for level-d and others>that relied on Stephan for the updates.>>Jasper>>Again, no problem paying for things. Just triyng to point out>that we actually have already payed for the stuf.>>I hope you realize that when an airline pays Boeing millions of dollars for one airliner, Boeing doesn't provide navdata updates at all. The airlines have to purchase the data for their FMCs every month for thousands of dollars. That's what's real. You should be very greatful for what we have.

Ok, so I have a question about this that has been confusing me. When it says "purchase airport data" what does that exactly mean? I am interested in the worldwide AIRAC, that is all. How much should I suspect to be paying each 28 days?