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RW operations in climb

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I tried a search for this but it was 34 pages so I am going to ask.I have an understanding that in the US you must remain below 250kts below 10000 feet. When climbing out in the 744 heavily loaded for a flight from KSFO to EDDF my VNAV climb speed was 275 which when it reached that speed it allowed me to retract my flaps completely. If it had not gone to that speed I may have had remain in flaps 1 all the to 10000 feet. Is permission given to very heavy aircraft to go above 250kts without getting busted?Thanks


Andrew

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I recently read that no permission in the US is granted for speed beyond 250. ATC does not have the authority to lift the 250 below 10,000 foot restriction per 91.117(a), so you can't be told nor can you violate such action.I'm unlcear why you would've reach 275 knots. The FMC, unless you can override the 250/10000 with a faster speed, shouldn't let you do it in VNAV. I've only entered slower speeds and don't fly RW, so I can't say for sure though.


- Chris Jefferies

 

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Same general speed restriction is valid in Europe, but I haven


/Tord Hoppe, Sweden

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If the clean speed is above 250 then heavy aircraft are allowed to exceed, they need to inform ATC prior to departure. As far as I'm aware when heavy VNAV will automatically give you a faster speed unless you tell it to maintain 250.


Rob Prest

 

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>>If the clean speed is above 250 then heavy aircraft are>allowed to exceed, they need to inform ATC prior to departure.> As far as I'm aware when heavy VNAV will automatically give>you a faster speed unless you tell it to maintain 250. Thats exactly what I read and believed too....Reider

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Just so you know, this exact issue has been kicked around the Radar Contact forum for years. It was a deep discussion for both the development and beta teams over several versions of the program. In the end, a comprimise was set whereby, if the departure occurs outside the US, a Radar Contact menu item appears, allowing the PF to request permission for >250Kt <10Kft. If the departure is in the US, this menu option does not appear.This is also an issue for me when using other add-ons including FSPassengers and FS Flight Keeper. Although there are config-edits available to the programs, by default they will penalize you for busting 250k/10Kft no matter the aircraft or where your departure occurs. So I just input a restriction of 250/10000 in the VNAV climb page and if I'm heavy, use flaps-one to 10Kft. Sometimes the integration of multiple addons to a single simulation scenario can become somewhat burdonsome. Give and take...


Regards,
Al Jordan
------------
KMLB

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Like you said, it's possible to switch of the restriction in both programs. A lot better then the high drag and extra fuel flow from flaps 1. No excuses for busting speed on the way back down :) Rob


Rob Prest

 

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Guest Just747-400

Dear Captains,When minimum clean speed is greater than 250 Kts below 10,000 Ft the pilot will inform the ATC accordingly ex:

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Hi,I am not a pilot myself, neither do i have any idea about the RW regulation all over the world, but : I have great respect and confedence (sorry if this is not the correct word, my native language is Dutch)for the people who write the TRC ;-)In TRC 4 page 12 it states :"If an online ATC controller tries to argue the 250 knot limit with you: Simply refer them to 91.117 paragraph (d).


Regards,

William Vrielynck

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Okay, well I didn't know that you could exceed the 250 limit. I guess if ATC tells you to do you can't, but you can ask? Seems odd.


- Chris Jefferies

 

Asus Maximus VII Hero motherboard | Intel i7 4790k CPU | MSI GTX 970 4 GB video card | Corsair DDR3 2133 32GB SDRAM | Corsair H50 water cooler | Samsung 850 EVO 250GB SSD (2) | EVGA 1000 watt PSU

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But the point I tried to make is, if you're using Radar Contact with a departure in the US and you really don't want to greet FDSO at the end of the flight, you'll have to keep it below 250/10K. I know, he keeps taking my license. ;)


Regards,
Al Jordan
------------
KMLB

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William,Alex just confirmed that 91.117 applies to RW operations as well. The captain of the ship is the captain of the ship. As far as I understand ATC can not order the pilot to operate below minimum safe airspeed.Cheers,


Mats Johansson
PMDG Flight Test Dept
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Guest Just747-400

I never used this Radar Contact at all so I have no knowledge about. Anyhow, World wide, that scenario never happens with us

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Radar Contact will always insist you stay at or below 250 knots under 10,000', unless you select the "heavy" aircraft when you run the program, then once you take off and start climbing you can ask if you can bust the 250 limit and either get it or not. Apparently, since heavies that might need to exceed the 250 limit are legally allowed to do so when ATC is notified, Radar Contact is wrong in how it handles this procedure and should give the option prior to take off. I guess it's all about authorization, but RC should give this option prior so you aren't fumbling through menus while trying to climb out.


- Chris Jefferies

 

Asus Maximus VII Hero motherboard | Intel i7 4790k CPU | MSI GTX 970 4 GB video card | Corsair DDR3 2133 32GB SDRAM | Corsair H50 water cooler | Samsung 850 EVO 250GB SSD (2) | EVGA 1000 watt PSU

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>William,>>Alex just confirmed that 91.117 applies to RW operations as>well. The captain of the ship is the captain of the>ship. As far as I understand ATC can not order the pilot to>operate below minimum safe airspeed.>>Cheers,Thanks for the update Mats


Regards,

William Vrielynck

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