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ghutcheon

What happened to Bangkok?

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This weekend I flew a 10.5 hour flight from Johannesburg to Bangkok (realtime). On appraoch to the airport (LNAV/VNAV mode) I selected the APP mode and got a warning in the FMC to the effect "NAV Error" or similar. Has never experienced this before. I the realised as I approached, that the airport does not exist in this location.To "rescue" my 10 hour flight, I got onto the radio and asked ATC for the airport direction, which was given at about 15 miles from where the nav data claimed it to be. I don't subscribe to nav data updates but I think this is an FS error or perhaps the airport is in the nav data but not correct in FS scenery perhaps?

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Sir,were you approaching the new or the old airport of Bangkok? VTBD or VTBS? If you have Nav Data for the new airport and fly it using FS9 without any add-on scenery you won't see any airport at the minimum :)Markus

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Ah Ha!That may explain it. I was approaching VTBS. VTBS obviously is a new airport then and does not appear in the FSX scenery. Note I say FSX, not FS9 scenery.Just as well I had not set the WX on the deck. Not that the aircraft would have allowed me to Autoland anyway....A safe landing was made by a confused pilot at the "wrong" but only airport :-)GregH

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Greg,As far as I know VTBS is missing in FSX default scenery as well. There's no add-on scenery for that airport yet for FSX, there's one for FS9 though.Remember, you must ALWAYS plan for an alternate airport when flying commercial IFR! So had you done your planning correctly you would not have been confused and proceeded to the alternate after a go around :)Regards,Markus

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Hi Markus,You are indeed correct. I must be chastised for not selecting an alternate before undertaking a mamoth flight across the open ocean. On one hand, I try to fly to the book, Jeppesen plates and all, but on the other one takes shortcuts....BAD!T'was just a tad unexpected when on what is supposedly final approach at 2000' with VMC and all I can see in the night is farmland ahead to the horizon. Guess I will see if the new Bangkok airport is available for download somewhere. Just read quite an interesting record of the new Bangkok airport on wikipedia (after googling it). Seems it was only opened in 2007, explaining it being missing from FSX but it is not without it's problems and many domestic carriers have returned to the old airport as a result.

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You think it's bad in FS... I flew into Bangkok a few months back and my friend drove to the old Don Muong Airport to pick me up... not realizing that it is closed!! In FS and inconvenience... in real life... a pain in the ####.

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Hi there MarkusOne doesn't always have to plan for an alternate to divert to once having reached the destination, at least here in Australia. QF (and airlines in Australia at least) routinely do not plan for alternates providing the weather at destination is okay/above set minimums amongst other things. This is standard procedure on both short flights and long flights. This occurs on both domestic and international flights - a flight I was on from EGLL/WSSS for example did not plan for an alternate. If they thought things were looking bad at WSSS along the way, they would have diverted enroute (WMKK for example). However, they did not plan for an alternate to fly to after having reached Singapore. Same procedure was used for YSSY/WSSS and WSSS/EGLL. They did plan for an alternate for the WSSS/YMML leg (which was YPAD) due to poor visibility at YMML.Just thought you might like to know this happens, at least under regulations in this part of the world.RegardsRudy

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All,Yes the same applies to FAA governed airspace as well and I'm sure JAA has something similar. The FAA rule is popularly called the 1-2-3 rule:"A destination alternate is required if:- From 1 hour before to 1 hour after ETA- The ceiling is forecast to be less than 2000 ft- The visibility is forecast to be less than 3 miles"FAR 121.619Just a snippet of information.Cheers,

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So what would happen if on approach to destination with the sun shining, the aircraft landing ahead of you had an accident, closing the runway/airport to other traffic. Is such a scenario covered in the fuel policy with these carriers?GregH

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I posed the same question on a flight YMML/YMHB (which is a single ruwnway show). Apparently it's so unlikely they don't even give it a thought.RegardsRudy

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I guess that's why they plan with the so called contingency reserve. It used to be 5% of the total enroute burn added to the total fuel load. But I think (And please correct me if I'm wrong) carriers wants it lowered to 3%.Cheers,

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Hi,I flew into there last November....... nice terminal and all, good shopping, interesting dragon in the middle etc...... but staff don't know their way around...Asked like 10 people where the BA lounge was... most had no clue and it took me nearly an hour to find it.....That'll teach me not to pay attention at checkin!!!!!Used to visit the old one a lot... liked it as it had a "staff canteen" open to public on 3rd floor.... cheap and good.... still its all finished now I guess.... not sure what's happening with domestics...slowly migrating back to the new airport I guess.Quicker drive into town from the new one... but no skytrain yet!Cheers,Paul

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Apparently the new airport also claims to have the tallest control tower in the world.

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The contingency (called VFR here - variable fuel reserve) seems to be 10% up to a certain maxiumum depending on aircraft. For the 744 it seems to be ~4000kg maximum.

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