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Guest Paul Bonhomme

Confirmed head movement in Virtual Cockpit, MD-11

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Guest Paul Bonhomme

Ok, previous threads on this subject have now garnered over 855 combined views and only one official response from PMDG. The official response only acknowledged a typographical error in the PMDG manual and did not address several user's concerns or observations.The bug is this:Dynamic head movement in the PMDG MD-11 cannot be adjusted. Even when such is disabled via configuration file changes, dynamic head movement cannot be disabled with the MD-11. The MD-11 is the ONLY FSX aircraft that does not respond to software configuration file switches in regards to Dynamic Head Movement. At present, the initial virtual cockpit viewpoint is continually skewed as the aircraft moves about it's axes. It is therefore impossible to correctly fly the MD-11 without constant manual viewpoint adjustment as otherwise critical instruments will be obscured from view. It is futhermore impossible to reset the correct initial cockpit view via the 'cntrl-space' command internal to FSX. One must therefore conclude that PMDG designed a default value for virtual cockpit head movement into the flight model itself, and this value is not adjustable, nor can it be turned off via a software switch.At present there are only two ways to fly the MD-11 from the virtual cockpit:1) zoom out far enough that the built-in head movement dynamics don't cause a compromised instrument view (quite unrealistic and cumbersome)2) constantly manually readjust viewpoint after every turn, pitch change, and deviation from straight and level flight. (Great for those precision turns on Final). Not!How in the world did this get past the Beta, omg? PMDG does not seem to want to talk about this issue, which leads one to believe they may not be able to fix it or offer any kinds of workarounds. Seriously though, PMDG, how did you guys think customers would not notice or take issue with this?I'm at a loss..... :(-Paul Bonhomme

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The "VC font antialiasing" bug was worst and passed the beta. Everything can happen :( maybe they will fix it with a patch.By the way... What are the issues that will be fixed in the first patch? Will it be released soon? (LOOK---->>> NOT ASKING FOR DATES <<<----LOOK)


Juan Ramos
Sorry for my bad english

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Just to make sure we're talking about the same thing, you're talking about when the view moves slightly in the VC as you accelerate, brake, bank, climb, do whatever, right? EDIT: Let me make sure I'm seeing things correctly, I report back in a bit.EDIT2: Okay, I just tested out the MD-11 and the default ultralight. Even with momentum effect set to no, both planes still move slightly. I had to look closely, but it still happens on the ultralight. It's just harder to see because of the "cockpit". It seems to make a big difference from when it was set to, but you can still see it. I don't know for sure, but given that I experienced this on the default ultralight as well, I'm thinking it's an FSX thing.Paul, could you test the ultralight and see if it happens to you there too? You'll have to look very close, but it still happens. I had to do about 5 different flights to see it, but it's there.I don't have another payware product, so I can't test those.


Mike Roth

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Guest Paul Bonhomme

Hi Mike,THANK YOU for replying!!! What is happening with the MD-11 is as if the virtual pilot slides around in his seat in reaction to movement about the aircraft axes. The result is that the virtual cockpit viewpoint gets constantly shifted to a new position. I flew the default Extra extensively after setting the MomentumEffect = No switch and I personally could not discern any head movement in the virtual cockpit thereafter, even during very high G maneuvers.I honestly do not remember this effect happening with my FSX PMDG 747-400, but I will test fly it and see. I can say though that I never had to mess with momentum effects nor had to reposition my viewpoint constantly in the 747 as I now must do in the MD-11. For whatever reason, the VC viewpoints and head movement dynamics in the PMDG 747 were never an issue. In fact, I remember rather liking the momentum effects with 747's virtual cockpit. You are also right about the initial zoom/position making a big difference. If one has the VC view zoomed to like 50 or 60, the effect is mitigated. If one however has an initial zoom of around 80 or so for a precision instrument approach view, the viewpoint is constantly skewed about.The really big problem is that the viewpoint changes constantly and does not return to the initial position, making it impossible to do precision instrument flight. Think of this analogy: Your Labrador Retriever (insert favorite dog breed here) is riding in the back seat of your car. He or she always stands up so he can look out the window and doesn't wear a seatbelt. Every time you stop for a light or turn a corner, your dog slides around as a result of the forces being applied. If you are going down a straight road at a constant speed, the pup stays in the same place. Of course, you will eventually have to turn and/or stop, and then the poor creature slides around yet again. He never manages to stay in the same place for long. The MD-11 virtual pilot does the same thing. Turn a corner, accelerate, decelerate, etc., and he slides around to a new position. Unless you are zoomed way out it's incredibly frustrating to have to 'put the pilot back into his seat' so he can see out again properly and/or see all of his instruments after every turn. Again, THANK YOU for replying and I sincerely appreciate your help.-Paul Bonhomme

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Paul,Just to clarify a little bit, I'm not an "official" PMDG person. I'm just a regular user like you who happens to be a beta tester. :)I wish I owned another payware product for FSX, because I'd love to test this out with other planes. If you do get a chance, try the 747x out like you mentioned, I'm curious if it happens there as well. I don't know for sure, but I imagine PMDG doesn't do anything with the head movement.


Mike Roth

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Guest D17S

Interesting you should mention this. It was the 1st thing I noticed coming from the 744. Trying to keep a mouse cursor on a heading knob was near impossible in the Vcockpit. We had the conversation and it was described as a function of tiny clickspots available on the Vcockpit. DaKnow, but I still find the MCP very hard to deal with in the Vcockpit. Ugh. Now I just deal with it. On the other hand, it makes me stay way ahead of the airplane. You're right again here. Any MCP knob spinning on final (using the Vcockpit) needs to have been already preset. However, sometimes Otto misses a close in NAV waypoint and I have to dive for the heading select knob. There have been approaches where I just terminate pre-crash with a Ctl-Alt-Del shutdown. "OMG, we're all gonna . . . " I just can't watch!Oh yea, we saw it.

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Prior to the release of the MD-11 and its associated instructions to set the momentum variable to 0 in the cameras.cfg file, I used to set all momentum affects values to 0 in the fsx.cfg file, which of course affects all FSX aircraft. Because I haven't had a chance to try my TrackIR with the MD11 VC yet, I can only wonder if going back to editing my fsx.cfg file might resolve this issue.Regards,


Regards,
Al Jordan
------------
KMLB

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Hello AlDoes editing the fsx .cfg file solve this issue?If so, what changes are made?RegardsStuart

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Guest Paul Bonhomme

Stuart, In a word, no. There is essentially no fix for this problem unfortunately. One of those FSX bugs one has learn to live with I guess, but I choose not to. You can change the .cfg file, camera views, dynamic head movement parameters, etc, until you are blue in the face. You will still always slide around in the virtual cockpit no matter what you try. You can even disable Momentum Effects altogether, but this STILL has no effect. The MD-11 virtual cockpit movement effect cannot be turned off. Momentum effects in some FSX planes can be turned off with the smaller planes, but larger aircraft like 747's, MD-11's, etc, will always exhibit momentum effects in the virtual cockpit.You can zoom way out to lessen the effect, but you won't be able to fly precision instrument approaches that way. PMDG is aware of the problem; their own beta team identified the issue apparently, but nothing was able to be done about it. PMDG is 'officially' silent on the subject. Go figure.It's funny though. The MD-11 is a technological marvel to be quite honest, and an absolutely enormous achievement given the constraints of the handicapped nature of FSX itself. However, the genius involved on PMDG's side notwithstanding, all of this is negated by one weak link in the chain, at least from my perspective. If you can't fly precision instruments from the virtual cockpit, it's all useless. You can't maintain stable approach parameters if your viewpoint in the virtual cockpit continually shifts around from point to point. You just can't do it. This is directed solely at Microsoft now, but I really think there should be a new .cfg file parameter:'MicrosoftRetardedProgrammersShortcomings = OFF'This switch would turn of the retarded virtual cockpit movement effects, the retarded sudden wind shifts aloft (carried over from FS9), the retarded flight dynamics of the default planes, etc. I hope Phil Taylor invited some of his friends with him during his exodus from the development team - a lot of these people need to be unemployed frankly. Perhaps some new faces and fresh ideas, along with a renewed sense of achievement and work ethic would go a lot way in fixing the seemingly perpetually crippled Flight Simulator epic.I digress....I've uninstalled my copy of the MD-11 and probably will fly exclusively with FS9 from now on. I don't have the patience to deal with the situation any further. FS9 had the same retarded people working on it from Microsoft of course, but the aftermarket has by now addressed most of the issues the retards in Redmond could never seem to get right. -Paul Bonhomme

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So much for it being a "confirmed bug" in the MD-11 then. ;)Kevin


ki9cAAb.jpg

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Guest Paul Bonhomme

Kevin,You are right. It's all FSX. I'm just too frustrated to deal with it right now. I need to write a message of apology to PMDG. I promise to do so.

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Guest Paul Bonhomme

Thought this one over a little.PMDG knew the virtual cockpit dynamic head movement was a big problem; they would have had to known. They choose to ignore it, FSX bug or not.PMDG's right to practice business as they see fit.I will rephrase myself and say the following:The virtual cockpit on the MD-11 is unusable from the standpoint of precision instrument flying. If you are zoomed in close enough to read the instruments properly, the FSX uncontrollable head movement bug will 'slide' your butt (and body) around in the cockpit every single time you bank, pitch, etc. You must continually 'climb' back into your seat to view critical instrumentation properly. PMDG knew about this. It's an FSX bug, but PMDG never came up with a solution around it. This one fatal flaw kills the whole experience and completely undermines PMDG ingenious technical achievement with the MD-11. If you can't fly it realistically for any reason, the precision in detail is lost. I really think future hardcore reviews of the MD-11 on major simmng sites will latch on to this issue right off and it will come back and haunt PMDG in the long run.Just my 2 cents.-Paul Bonhomme

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Guest D17S

I'm not noticing that much head movement. My observation was that the Vcockpit kept moving out from under my mouse cursor as I attempted to spin a knob. It doesn't take much bobbin' around cuz those mouse clickpoints are so small. One of my mainstays is hand-flying (or attempting to fly) CatII(I) approaches. So far my only hope is to get configured, on speed and on-the-dots, then shut down the weather visibility to 1/4 mile. I find 1/8th is hopeless. Unless I get a glimpse at the runway for that last little bit, its curtains. Point being, it's entirely in the Vcockpit. . . and I find it eminently dooable . . . other than my fledgling skill level. However, this is with my nose less than a foot from 40" monitor. That might be helping a bit. At my zoom level, the PDF/ND are near life sized. I can barely imagine even trying to use a 19" monitor for other an EFB. I'm 'bout half blind anyway (that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it!)If there's so much movement that a user can't visually track the loc dot or even stay in the seat there's something else going on, for sure.

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Hello AlbertAppreciate the humour :-)I have to say, if what Paul says is true (and I have no reason at present to assume otherwise) then I am a little disappointed in PMDG not making that clear in the documentation or even printing an

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