Thanks for your prompt reply Ray. Always a pleasure read your witty and irudite replies to my moronic musings. Since that was your last post to me, I think I can safely assume that you will no longer be posting to the PIC forum. That's unforunate. Your friendly posts and helpful assists will be missed.Now, to reply to your points.I never said you stole anything Ray. Read it again. I said that you were "abetting theft".As for me being an "idiot" (I had to look it up the meaning of that one), I completely agree with your assessment of my mental state. Most of my friends call me an idiot, as do my kids, my dogs, and several small aliens that live in a shoebox in the basement. Yep, you got me sussed Ray.That said, at least I don't live in Cheshire. Only complete nutters live in Cheshire.Your pal,DS CVA3339 / UKD149System: Attlon 900 McW Hamster/Gerbilized Quantum Accessible 55Gig Iodized-Encrusted Cheshire-free Four-poster with Mega-brill Farzenhuuven http://vatsim.pilotmedia.fi/statusindicato...tor=OD1&a=a.jpg

Ray, you raise an interesting point about the OKness of mods that have been discussed/released on this very forum for 767 PIC in FS2002. Can anyone say with certainty that all of our favourite FS2002 mods (eg. VFR landing panel, idle thrust for taxiing, Posky aircraft merge, TCAS gauge/panel, etc.) have all received the PIC team's A1 seal of legal approval?Gary

Tuff question Gary and deserves a shot at an answer.And the short answer is, NO. But let's take a deeper look at your question. The TCAS gauge/panel uses none of the PIC bitmaps and no modified PIC gauges. Lee took care not to step on ANY copy write or ownership toes. The only modification is to a few lines in the panel config file. The rest is his and his alone.As far as the POSKY merge is concerned, all I can say is why not. The PIC team did not provide what is widely acclaimed to be a bad aircraft model. That was stuck in there by Wilco. The POSKY merge had nothing to do with the heart of PIC.The landing views, depending on your preference (one uses a modified PIC bitmap but Phil created his own, could easily enough be called into question.I am not so sure as to the infringement into the air file with the taxi tweaks. Depending on your point of view, it could be argued both ways.The timing of the recent modifications are what has so many of us so jumpy right now. It is not nice to bite the hand that feeds you. Many of us are optimistic about getting fed again.Mike

So much for keeping out ;) I will say that WADE has been very gracious by letting some of us users modify panels etc and post on the library. He COULD HAVE STOPPED IT. I know he wanted to see some of the users happy by what we the PIC community could come up with. This shows his real heart in the matter. Most companies or persons would have balked at such things. [h5]Best Wishes,Randy J. Smith [h4]P M D G 7 3 7 NG[/h4]http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/196432/mineimage.jpg [h3] Realism on the horizon [h5]AMD XP 2200 |MUNCHKIN 512 DDR RAM |ECS[/b ][i] K7S5A MB[/i] |GF2 MX 32 MEG and still runs GOOD!|WIN XP PRO |MITSUBISHI DIAMOND PLUS 91 19"[/h5]

What I find disturbing is the prevalent unwillingness to WAIT for the developers to respond.The TCAS, Landing View, & POSKY merges were not PATCHES for a NEW VERSION of FS. They were mods that were distributed WITHOUT gauges, etc, and were done in the spirit of respect WITH AN EXISTING VERSION.What some are doing working to get PIC to operate with FS9, in my opinion, is profoundly disrespectful to WELP. Let the developers decide the fate of PIC767 for a NEW VERSION of FS. If they choose to update, patch, rewrite, then so be it. If they don't, so be it. It is THEIR choice to make, not a bunch of crybaby flight-simmers bleating "I want my PIC with FS9 now!".Regardless, it is poor form for users to advertise their mods in the house/forum that WELP built.Just my 2 cents.I have been enriched by the PIC, and I feel it is our obligation to protect it from opportunists. I may overstate my case in the forum from time to time. Just my 10 cents actually.... ;)DS CVA3339 / UKD149System: Attlon 900 McW Hamster/Gerbilized Quantum Accessible 55Gig Iodized-Encrusted Four-poster with Mega-brill Farzenhuuven http://vatsim.pilotmedia.fi/statusindicato...tor=OD1&a=a.jpg

Real quick though, I think I paid for PIC767, wait I'm sure I paid for it, and if I want to patch it myself to FS2K4, it's no one's business but my own, be damned what anyone else thinks. If the PIC team doesn't want me to patch it to FS2K4 so I can use it in that sim, well, I could care less what they think (although I don't think they really care what I think), I paid for it it's mine. This is the PIC767 forum, so questions on how to do that are legitimate as well.But, I agree that any .bmps, code, gauges or anything else that was sold to me, on that PIC disk, better not be traded around or sold or whatever.I guess it's like a buffet, eat as much as you like, just don't share that food that's on your plate.

@ Dshut:...always the same from you...blah...blah...blah...blah...nothing new!Are you bored or something?Matthias

Hi all,Thanks for the reconforting words Mike and you too Lee. I was really perplexed by the earlier comments. Maybe we should abstain making well intended suggestions public in a large forum to avoid repeated mis-interpretations. Quite discouraging I must say.Michael

Well, you are entitled to your opinion, as am I, but legally you would be violating the EULA (End User License Agreement) if you were to hack or get hacked anything in PIC's code. You do not *own* the software, you own a license to use it. That license clearly states that you may not disassemble or otherwise reverse-engineer the code covered by the license.

>Real quick though, I think I paid for PIC767, wait I'm sure I>paid for it, and if I want to patch it myself to FS2K4, it's>no one's business but my own, be damned what anyone else>thinks. If the PIC team doesn't want me to patch it to FS2K4>so I can use it in that sim, well, I could care less what they>think (although I don't think they really care what I think),>I paid for it it's mine. Patching for your own use might or might not be illegal under the EULA -- I haven't reviewed it recently. However you are dead wrong when you say you paid for it and it's yours. You did not and it is not. What you paid for is a LICENSE. That license allows you to use the code under the terms of the license. It does not transfer any ownership of the code or anything else that was on that CD to you. The same is true of every other piece of software you have legally obtained for use on your computer.I know it's seems a semantic technicality but it is, in fact, much more than that. Don't fall into the trap of thinking you own it. You don't.cz

Lobaeux and Proudfoot, and others that seem to think DS is a pain in the hass, I have news for you. He is, BUT.. the matter of the truth he is refering to can not be dismissed as his mental state of mind, or his boredom, due to an accident he received a few months back sliping down some stairs while in a drunken stuper and wacking his head on a piece of stale Stilton Cheese. And even if that was the case, which it is not, You still have to face the truth that what he is saying is simple truth. The matter is "Incessant" demands for something that takes time for the WELP team to build will only profit you nothing. Your ######ings for a new patch or new product will only urinate off the team. Especally if you post a-crack-way to fly on FS9. I have to agree with DS. Post elsewhere.I for one can't believe why you can not wate? Are you so spoiled that you whine like a 2 year old for his bottle and nipple? Time to grow a bit gove'ner For Budda's sake man, fly your pic767 on FS2002. It works there without scenery hicups and as DS states, Frankenstein patches.Richard Critz is 100% correct. You do not own it! All you own is the right to use it on your computer. DS, take bath. You smell like bad Stilton man! ;)http://www.stiltoncheese.com/Images/recipestilton.jpg

"Lobaeux and Proudfoot, and others that seem to think DS is a pain in the hass"-actually, I don't think he's a pain in the #### at all. I think he brings up good points, and does it in an irreverent and unpredictable manner. There is nothing wrong with good debate or arguments."The matter is "Incessant" demands for something that takes time for the WELP team to build will only profit you nothing. Your ######ings for a new patch or new product will only urinate off the team. Especally if you post a-crack-way to fly on FS9. I have to agree with DS. Post elsewhere."First of all, I haven't been '####' about patches, or making incessant demands. My whole involvement started when I offered a suggestion. That's it.My problem exists for this simple fact, stated above about upseting the WELP team. Who cares? Once they released a payware product, in my view, they changed from freeware authors to a business. There is no room in a business for feelings, fawning or anything of the sort. People need to remember that. IF PIC were freeware, I could see the reasons in not wanting to upset them. But, they are doing this for two reasons and two reasons only. To build the best software product they can for Flight Simulator and to make a profit, however small, and neither in any particular order. If it's not for those two reasons, why not release it as freeware? When I paid my hard-earned money, I PAYED for the right to criticise, praise, cajole, '#### about' or whatever I want about this product, whether it be in a controlled forum or at home in front of my computer.Now, to quell the rebellion, I also paid for this product while it was only as an add-on for FS2002, and WELP, Wilco or whoever is under no requirement whatsoever to make sure that it works for FS2004. Period. If they do, and want to charge for it - HOORAY! Great! I'll pay for it. Until then, if I want to try and patch it myself (not releasing anything about it) to FS2004 ( which I haven't or won't) I don't believe it's any business of WELP/Wilco.That pretty much sums up my problems with this whole business. It's just that, it's a business (freeware is a completely different animal). No room for feelings or fawning, just my cash in exchange for a product that works. I don't need people to tell me to be patient, to wait, that you'll upset WELP's fragile ego. As I said before, they can't possibly care what I PERSONALLY think of them, that's irrelevant, or what they think about me, only about crafting and releasing the best product they possibly can. And that they can do, they've proven it.