Hi,An old PIC bug. For some people they deploy everytime, for some never.However, the nosewheel need not be on the ground before reversers can be engaged on the 767. As soon as the mains contact, you can apply reversers. Be careful to lower the nose on the ground though.Tero

If you're in a nose-high attitude on the ground and deploy the reversers, won't the nose come down by itself by either running past elevator effectiveness, lift available on the wing being insufficient to maintain that AOA, or (for lack of a better description) a pivot action - engines want to stay where they are, nose wants to keep going, now plop? Or are you saying "be careful to do a controlled lowering of the nose to the ground" because of the above issues?

I don't think that hawkman is a 75 or 76 pilot. Just look at his statement:"I'm not %100 on this, even though doing so is strictly prohibited, I think on this aircraft series you can even deploy the reversers inflight"Most of us know WHAT happens to the 767 when a reverser deployes in flight! The only two types I know of are the VC-10 and the IL-62 which are allowed to use (the two outboard engines only ?)idle reverse before touchdown. Although I've seen more than one DC-9 doing the same thing ;-)DC-8s are allowed to use up to full reverse thrust on the inboard engines in flight but only under certain circumstances.Just a few other points concerning this thread.1. It is ESSENTIAL on (most probably)ALL jets to deploy the thrust reverser, IMMEDIATELY after maingear touchdown and NOT to wait until nosegear touchdown. Waiting would delay braking too much. Keep in mind that the autobrakes also start braking while the nosewheels are still in the air.2. IF you use more than idle reverse THEN you have to wait until after nosegear touchdown, otherwise you would loose directional control if one engine spools up much faster than the other. With autobrakes 1-4 the landing roll doesn't get any shorter with either idle or full reverse thrust. 3. Spoiler deployment on the 763 occurs only if the LEFT gear is down AND the thrustlevers are in idle. Why boeing opted to put the spoiler switch only to the left gear is beyond me!Positive pitch authority is defined to be available to approx 1.1 Vst at most forward c.g.The stall speed is slightly below Vref-10 and the 75 and 76s touchdown attitude at Vref-5 is around 7deg.On the 762 and the 757 a tailstrike occurs at ~11deg which is well BELOW stall speed, but the 763 gets a tailstrike below 8deg. Furthermore the 763 sometimes has the tendency to pitch UP after touchdown as well. So naturally you have a difference in available elevator authority. BTW, aerodynamic braking starts already during the flare, although the speed reduction by bleeding of the speed in the air is only approx 1/6th of the possible maximum decceleration on ground.RegardsBernt Stolle Capt 767

"First, you can definately deploy the reversers even if the nose is off the ground. I'm not %100 on this, even though doing so is strictly prohibited, I think on this aircraft series you can even deploy the reversers inflight. There is no interlock between the reversers and the nose gear ground switch/sensing. So, a pilot can hold the nose off the ground to use aerodynamic braking while also managing the reversers."Okay first of all you can't engage the reverser if the a/c is airborne. The WOW (weight on wheels) switch has to be on.Next, you can engage the reverser with the nose gear not on the tarmac but don't hold the nose off for too long. You definetely have enough elevator authority to lower the nose smoothly. This is also not the concern why you shouldn't do it in other aircraft - the real concern is rudder authority (ie keeping the aircraft on the center line). The 767 has an enormous rudder (due to very powerful engines) and therefore has enough effectiveness to keep the aircraft on the center line in max x/w with the nose still in the air and reversers on. Not every a/c is certified for this.Regarding aerodynamic braking - that's a myth and is a very dangerous thing (and foolish thing!!) to do in any airliner. While aerodynamic braking does exist, it is nowhere as effective as light braking and you'll either damage the nose gear or tailstrike the a/c. Either way, you're close to getting fired!Regards,Mark

Hawkman,Forgive me sir, but your continous doubts about LDS's "authenticity" sound a bit weird.First of all, you couldn't possibly have any idea about the things changed from PIC1 to LDS767. And until you have, I wouldn't continously try to put it down... with comments like:"Let's face it, just about anyone can make a pretty picture. . .but can they model it to level of real authenticity/immersion"Are you expecting a flying desk here, or a new Heavy jetliner controls delivered along with the SW ?? I'm sure EVERYTHING has been done to increase the immersion factor, but you seem to imply that LDS can't "deliver". It will be interesting to see your comments about it after the release. I wonder if you'll be able to find more in it than just a "pretty picture".Also, with that kind of tone don't expect any replies from Wade regarding the deletion of your thread. Eventhough you know a lot, and most likely are a 757/767 pilot yourself, everyone here expects certain kind of politeness from people who post here, from pilots even.Tero

Hawkman,>Have you ever flown with a reverser deployed whilst inflightIf it wouldn't be so serious this wouldn't even deserve an answer.When the reverser on our 767 deployed, the theoretical recovery window would have been 4sec, apart from the fact that at that time not even boeing knew what would happen!After 11sec the whole structure started to fail at M.99 resulting in death of all 223 people on board>You may want to do some more research on what all airplanes can deploy reversers whilst inflightNot CAN, but are allowed to, see the DC-9 example above.Just go ahead and tell me YOUR results.>...consideration for a possible difference in reverser deployment speed, or even a possible reverser malfunction. >Both of which can possibly lead to a catastophic loss of control, or extreme difficulty in maintaining direction.Not much system knowledge here as well, uh ?Why on earth would you experience a "catastrophic loss of control", whatever this is, with one engine in idle and the other in reverse idle?Do you know that most engines only reverse the fan air and that the core engine still delivers foward thrust ? >Just my two pence worth.Your various 'answers' are not even worth a single pence.Bernt Stolle Capt 767

Hawkman,>Or maybe you're trying to prove that you know more than anyone else here.???? It's just about YOU. I'd be happy if I would have e.g. Ians knowledge !>....everything you say is right and everything I say is apparently not.You GOT it.:-) But this isn't my fault, is it ?Bernt Stolle Capt 767

Thanks for your informative replies and especially thanks to Bernt for additional information regarding this issue.Regards,jack

I noticed that upon touchdown on the mains that the spoilers, even though I have armed them prior to touchdown, do not deploy when the mains make contact. They only deploy when reverse thrust is activated and I assume that you can only activate the reverse thrust when the nose wheel is firmly planted on the tarmac.Can somebody clarify the above for me. Regards,jack

>3. Spoiler deployment on the 763 occurs only if the LEFT gear is down AND the thrustlevers are in idle. Why boeing opted to put the spoiler switch only to the left gear is beyond me!Sounds like some sort of option, Bernt?From our training notes..."The auto speedbrake actuator moves to the full extend position when the auto speedbrake extend relay is energised.The extend relay is energized when the auto speedbrake air/gnd system 1 and 2 relays are energised.The auto speedbrake air/ground sys 1 and sys 2 relays are energised when:1. airplane is on the ground AND...2. the truck tilt (hydraulic) pressures are high AND...3. both thrust levers are less than 8.5 degrees (angles vary from manual to manual) AND...4. the speedbrake lever is armed or a reverse thrust lever is at idle AND...5. (additionally, I believe) on our latest aircraft and on subsequently modified aircraft the right gear truck proximity sensor is in the ground position."Re 1. the "airpane on the ground" logic requires BOTH main gears on the ground (as sensed by BOTH air-ground systems). They're really not kidding around with this system. They definitely only want the spoilers to auto-deploy on the ground. Perhaps your manuals are referring only to the additional safety circuits? (It looks like ours is on the right gear)Anyway, I'm sure someone someone will let us know if we're wrong! (Hey, I'm only as smart as my manuals ;-)).BTW, thanks for the flying tips :-)Cheers.Ian. P.S. I believe "MAX AUTO" autobrakes also gives you a controlled stopping rate (only RTO doesn't care what the resultant deceleration rate is)

>>....everything you say is right and everything I say is>apparently not.>>You GOT it.:-) But this isn't my fault, is it ?>>Bernt Stolle Capt 767ROFL! Good one Bernt!

Ian,>Perhaps your manuals are referring only to the additional safety circuits? (It looks like ours is on the right gear)I didn't take this information from the manuals, this is a classic example of 'additional knowledge' which transpires from "insider" co-pilots and flight instructors. Never had this much information before :-) I still remember one of my first landings in male in a heavy crosswind where the right gear touched slightly before the left gear,I pulled up the reverse levers and sat there thinking, something isn't right. Then the left gear settled and suddenly from the corner of my eye, I saw the speedbrake lever moving aft.That was all within 2-3sec but I was surprised that the reverse levers unlocked while the spoilers didn't extend. Most probably you are right with max auto, but I wasn't sure so I only mentioned 1-4 ;-) All the bestBernt Stolle Capt 767

>That was all within 2-3sec but I was surprised that the reverse levers unlocked while the spoilers didn't extend.Ah, now this is puzzling..... According to the Boeing Maintenance Manual Wiring Schematics, the reversers should also not have deployed until both main gear were on the ground.It seems unlikely that a simple fault would allow you to deploy both reversers prior to both main gear being on the ground. There would have had to have been multiple faults (certainly enough to generate messages on the flight deck).I think this one will ever remain a mystery ;-) (Speculation welcome)Cheers.Ian R>

Another one for your list, Concorde was allowed to use the two inboard engines in idle reverse as long as the aircraft was subsonic, below 30,000ft, below 370kts and could be used for no longer than 4 minutes.But in that time it could descend at 11,000ft per minute, so 4 minutes was more than enough time for any kind of emergency decent. :(

mmm deploying reversers in flight..not a ood option. If I remember correctly it was precisely this which caused the crash of a Lauda 767 some years ago.I might be wrong but then its late and the red wine is kicking in y'all take care now:-beerchugRob YMA002 - Compass Airlines Australia - a new direction!