HiIs it me or has project magenta made another leap forward in its price,I was going to buy it but dont remember it being as expensive as it is. Over 500 euros for the basic pack ,by the time you add on the pm systems etc your looking at nearly a grand,Is it really worth that much? Unfortunately because theres no competition they can justify whatever price they likecheers keith

Prices went up by 50% as of Feb 1.Frankly, I feel it's unwarranted. I'm not saying that PM shouldn't be allowed to increase their prices, but a 50% hike is unreal. 5%-15% would be more palateableAs for competition, FreeFD was recently mentioned on another builder forum I'm on. Code is being tweaked, but it might be worth a gander once it's released.http://freefd.homeunix.com/

Yes, FreeFD is in fine working condition on the developers computer (or last I talked to him it was). He had some areas of improvement to tweak and fix and add in a few features and the new version of FreeFD would be released on his site. He used to have it at freefd.homelinux.com, but changed it due to his site being hacked into (which is actually his home computer). He's changed his site URL, but you can still find it if you need to.On my end, I'm working on a suite of software like no other (Called FSLink). It is being built for my pit (737NG - no hardware or $$$ just yet, so I'm working on the software side of things for now). Here is the rundown of features:-Bitmap files for Pieces-INI files for configuration of program and piece placement-OpenGL/C++ developed (I'm not a professional programmer, but am learning quickly)-Keyboard interface for functions-Test Mode for each display (exception is CDU)-Using the FSLink Client and Server, you can use joystick button presses to send keystrokes to the server application on another machine - only 1 client/server pair for now - Client/Server built in VB6)-FDSConnection (by FlightDeckSoftware - Now Defunct) or FSUIPC capable (FSUIPC limited functionality right now, but developing once I get the basic functionality of the programs done)The suite is basically 7 programs I've developed:FSLink PFD - Primary Flight DisplayFSLink ND - Navigation DisplayFSLink EICAS - Engine Instrumentation and Crew Alerting SystemFSLink FMC - Flight Management ComputerFSLink Linker - Connection to WideFS, FDSWideConnectionClient or FS via FSUIPC/FDSConnection locally - sets up named shared memory space for each variable - variables, offsets, names and other details configured in a text fileFSLink Client - Takes joystick button inputs and sends to server the window/keypress desired (based on an INI file)FSLink Server - Starts the programs on the display computer and listens for client keypressesThere are probably more things to spout about, but I'm developing it for two reasons - 1. PM is WAY too expensive a product for the pit builder (the rest of the pit is expensive enough) and 2. I wanted a program that I could configure (in case someone building a 777 wants to use my software) to a different setup. By changing the bitmaps, you can change the entire look of the program. If the holes in the bitmap aren't where they originally were, you can change the position of the other elements of the gauge via the INI file.So far, the entire suite runs with 1 PFD, 1 ND, 1 EICAS, 1 CDU, FDSWideConnectionClient, FSLinker and Server. The computer they're running on is a P3 2.7gHz, 512MB DDRRAM, nVidia geForce3 64MB and 21" Sony Trinitron Monitor at 1600x1200x32. It runs very smoothly and will be putting in 4 geForce MX4000 64MB PCI video cards to handle my 6 displays in one tower, each program running on its own video card.if anyone is interested, contact me at [email protected] and I'll try to get back to you as soon as possible. I have not released an alpha and will not until the FMC is running smoother and have added in all the modes to the ND (currently sits at Off, Test Mode and Map mode - have to add VOR and App mode and get the TCAS tables from FSUIPC to display traffic).I have a development site at sourceforge http://cvs.sourceforge.net/projects/fslink/ where I have some information and you can view the CVS repository to get access to the latest project files, but for now, I am the sole developer...sourceforge is the easiest way for me to keep the two copies on my laptop/desktop syncd and a total up-to-date version in one spot.Any comments welcome. Hopefully, FSLink will be usefull to someone other than myself.

"changed it due to his site being hacked into (which is actually his home computer)."Maybe it was someone who took offence to his mean-spirited decision to try to "pee in Pete Dowson's rice bowl" by coming up with a program to let payware authors get out of paying to connect to unregistered FSUIPC installs?Richard

hmm.. what program would that be? I'm not aware of any effort on FreeFD's part to "Pee in Dowson's rice bowl", nor am I aware of any mean-spirited decisions made by FreeFD. What program are you referring to?

I've asked the moderator to remove the post....I typed without giving myself time to think, for which I apologize. The program I was referring to is of course a product of Flight Deck Software (The 'GlassFD' people) NOT of FreeFD. Again, I apologize to FreeFD and to Don himself.Richard

HiI didnt realise it was a 50% rise,that has made my mind up not to buy project magenta simply because i dont agree with the price, I will wait for Level Ds 767 package and see what can be done there. Sorry Project Magenta but i personally just dont see how you can justify such expense for your software, I understand it takes a lot of time research etc to produce and all ,but really is it worth all that? others will say it is and i respect that,but for me it is way too pricey for my liking.As for the free Fd stuff,yes i looked at that some time ago and while it was of a very good standard(even better as its freeware) it doesnt really suit what i want.I am going with Wades 767 softwarecheers keith

>I will wait for Level Ds 767 package and see what can>be done there. Nothing without programming your own stuff with their upcoming SDK.What I dont understand is people talking about projects that will in the end cost sometimes tens of thousands, take years and years to build, and then they say Magenta is too expensive, when it is the glue that makes it all work. After all, its built from scratch to create the ultimate interfaceable solution. Do you want to spend your time trying to get some add-on with custom code to interface with your hardware? Which very likely will not ever work out in a satisfying way.. and you are the one strange weirdo building an airplane on your basement trying to explain yourself in their support forum, the developers having no clue why you want those things. In the Magenta user forum everyone is like you. That is quite a difference too.Sure, its a lot of money. But the demand and standard people expect today is high as well. While it hurts to rise the price levels, I think Enrico did the right thing if it is necessary to give him more room *to focus the software development* - remember, you get free updates, it's an ongoing project, directly benefiting you as a customer. And from what I have heard from people who are actually using PM, the support Enrico and the guys give is just great.How much is a fair price? //Tuomas

Although I partly agree, I also partly disagree.100s or even 1000s are spend in a a span of time of two, three or more years. But they are spend in very small amounds... 30 on one month for those buttons, another 50 another month for some PCBs etc. Only if you sum up you will drop unconcious with the total you have spend!!!But to spend 500Euros in one go?!... Well it is TOO much.PM is a good piece of software BUT it still has a lots of problems, feels like mid-beta or something and it's updated once every age.I don't use it, but know people who paid and -TRY to- use it.I tried the prior version of FreeFD and love them. If they could have a good working FMC and MCP it would cut PM's bussiness in half!And that's just because of the price!How much is a fair price? For Project Magenta? I would say no more than $60-$100 per aircraft type compilation the way they are now, with the slow updates etc. With that price they would sell more.George Dorkofikis

>Although I partly agree, I also partly disagree.>100s or even 1000s are spend in a a span of time of two, three>or more years. But they are spend in very small amounds... 30>on one month for those buttons, another 50 another month for>some PCBs etc. Only if you sum up you will drop unconcious>with the total you have spend!!!Heh, yeah :) Plus all the tools you end up buying "that are useful for other things also" (hah) :)>But to spend 500Euros in one go?!... Well it is TOO much.But we also can put $1000 in a new PC every now and then pretty easily - mostly just to run FS - a slow one works just fine for other things..//Tuomas

I don't believe there will ever be a 'fair' price, as each individual will have a different view of what is a fair price or not. I can understand those who find the cost of PM software out of their budget, but there are alternatives.FWIW, the PM software has been the least expensive part of my simulator project and probably the most worthwhile investment (apart from the actual flightdeck I purchased). Over the last three years, the constant pc hardware upgrades, to run FS, far exceeds the purchase cost of PM software, which BTW runs very happily on a lowly P3 400.

its more expensive than an Operating systems with more lines of codes... ill just use FreeFD... will save me more money for other parts... an over head panel from FDS or 2 LCD monitors...

As of right now, seems that many people will be looking at FreeFD or fvapres' suite of software. It's hard to say what is a fair price, but it's also hard to justify $1000 just for the software. Yes, the forum there is great but I have had MAJOR builders as of late also advise me personally on the phone that there are still some problems with the PM software. I have had many coversations with some of their developers, and I feel they do have good customer service but at the same time, I think that they may be a bit too focused on bigger projects than home builders. I encourage others to develop software and create healthy competition, even if there is no charge for the competition. In the over-all costs of my project, $1000 is not too much for the total price of the project, but I do think that it is quite a bit for just the display software considering everything.

Understood. Even so, considering that the global market is basically free enterprise, why would it be a bad thing to code another FSUIPC-like application? Competition is healthy, it keeps costs down (In most cases) and fosters technological advances. FDS has every right to publish whatever they see fit. If that as seen as "Peeing in someone else's rice bowl", would you feel the same affinity towards FSUIPC if the cost of said program tripled, or would you praise someone else for providing a cheaper solution?My thinking is that it depends on what side of the credit card transaction you are on....

"would you feel the same affinity towards FSUIPC if the cost of said program tripled, or would you praise someone else for providing a cheaper solution?"FSUIPC's core function - the stuff that FDSConnection duplicates - is provided by Pete FREE to all freeware applications - including(Still!) FDS. Triple "Free" is still "Free".FDSConnection has zero benefit whatsoever to anyone except Payware developers who currently pay a fee to connect their programs through FSUIPC - and why shouldn't they? If they're going to make money off the back of Pete's work, why shouldn't they 'cut him in'?I see FDS' decision to produce FDSConnection as "peeing in Pete's rice bowl" because they wrote it for one reason and one reason only - to let payware developers get out of paying to connect through FSUIPC even while freeware developers - including themselves - could continue to take advantage of FSUIPC for free.Heck, the program's such a clone of FSUIPC that they brag on their site that they've no need to produce documentation for developers - you can simply use more of Pete's work and rely on his documentation for FSUIPC!Richard