"Are you so naive to even dream we have the same thing a real airline would PRETEND for what they pay?"Man you seriously have no idea what your talking about. Your disgruntled thats a well known fact but dont insult me on a subject you obviously no nothing about. Ask PFC if their FAA approved simulator using magenta is a toy! And YES its the same software. Any updates that are made for the pros are eventually passed down to us.Take your anger to PMDG or PSS and ask why in 2005 they still refuse to add simple keyboard commands for their systems so that we can all simply interface too via a keyboard encoder, phidgets etc etc etc.Better yet sit down, have a beer and wait for the start of the Formula 1 season to get underway next weekend. I know I'am :-)Gary

Ok guys can this be put to bed,i didnt want to start any product bashing.I am more annoyed at myself as the last time the prices went up %50 I was on the verge of buying and again i have got caught/been too late.They have just gone up to much for ME now ,thats all. I just hope that Wade carries on the LevelD network guages so that I can develop my hobby!cheers Keith

"Man you seriously have no idea what your talking about. Your disgruntled thats a well known fact but dont insult me on a subject you obviously no nothing about. Ask PFC if their FAA approved simulator using magenta is a toy! And YES its the same software. Any updates that are made for the pros are eventually passed down to us."Please dont use that stupid argument to claudio "you have no idea what you are talking about". I have read it here too much time, and mostly usedby real ignorants.First thing: simulator certifications are essentially bound to their hardware. That's it. MSFS, is also part of that certification and it's not really a bullet proof software, like the pro software sold for 800$ and +One may return the argument against you. XPLANE - worth 50$ -is used in a Full Motion Simulator - see www.flightmotion.com - for ATP pilot certification. That's not the case of the PFC trainer, which is a simple procedure trainer. So dont get it all mixed up. Roger

Roger,Im not getting it all mixed up, Im just using the pfc stuff as an example. "Please dont use that stupid argument to claudio "you have no idea what you are talking about".Well for whetever reason claudio is under the impression that we pay one price and the pro's pay another for a far better product. Thats just not the case in this instance and hes pushing that argument pretty hard.At the end of the day there will be those who support magenta for what it is and those who dont. Personally I dont see it as an extremely huge cost, especially when you see the awsome pictures posted on here and elsewhere with great looking MIP panels etc, looking just like our favorite aircraft the pride the owner feels is enormous and thats what this hobby's all about. Gary

I found FDS Wide Connection too slow or something so I ended up just paying for FSUIPC with WideFS. It's flying now.

>Well for whetever reason claudio is under the impression that>we pay one price and the pro's pay another for a far better>product. Thats just not the case in this instance and hes>pushing that argument pretty hard.My reasons are:an Airline trains pilots for REAL AIRPLANE flying, they need ALL THE POSSIBLE normal and abnormal procedures, they can't accept "for the time being, please don't use LSK6L because there is a bug" or anything like that.Plus they need full-time assistance, complete functionality (not something like "yes next year we will update the weather radar"), FAA approval, Type rating of the software and hardware.Do you really believe that MSFS + PM comes anywere close to anyone of the above points?As stated above, MSFS is not FAA approved, not for full training while XPlane is.Second PM is not a complete system simulation, nor is FAA approved.So no airline could ever use it.So there are two options, and please don't tell me i am mad:-1st PM has never ever done anything with real airlines, they only sell to privates and the price is that because of the licencing caos they started with (i've talked about this in a previous post)-2nd they really have a FAA software, sell that to airlines for big bucks (and i think that alone could sell for millions) and charge us for an unjustified high price as this software is just the boiled down version of the main one (just like Formula1 and space technology eventually find their way in mass market products).I think this is the story about it.>At the end of the day there will be those who support magenta>for what it is and those who dont. Personally I dont see it as>an extremely huge cost, especially when you see the awsome>pictures posted on here and elsewhere with great looking MIP>panels etc, looking just like our favorite aircraft the pride>the owner feels is enormous and thats what this hobby's all>about. May i remember that the full Overhead panel made by FDS costs 799$ ?And that's at the edge of the real thing...But in the end, i am just mistified by the fact there is no one else producing any other software, could it be even the eicas alone.Should this entity sell it for 20/40$ i think everyone would buy it instead of magenta...I don't get why noone has ever done this...And anyway, another idea to help magenta sell more by reducing its prices: why not propose single type software?I mean: if i spend big bucks in a sim, i won't use all the types offered by magenta, so why not propose a discounted price for single type soft?Say i want only the NG, or the 767...The fact is: there are many ways of not charging that much for what is indeed (i push on this really hard) a GAMEING software, but it appears that, propelled by the total absence of any competition whatsoever and by all the people giving free rights to just about anyone selling anything (i wouldn't thrust you writing a constitution OMG!), he can and will continue to make the bad and the good at his will.That said, let's all wait for what Ferrari will do this year...Magics as always ;)

Ok, why exactly IS PM so expensive ???My guess:Its because of YOU! (who bought the product, want updates and new features, and bugs fixed).Why?Quite simple: Enrico and his Team have to live! It takes time to develop and support PM. Implemeting new features takes time. Support (Answering emails...) takes time.If all of Enrico's time goes to PM, he can't earn enough money to live off. He'd either work his day job and "neglect" PM, or work on PM and "neglect" his day job.I'm not sure if Enrico has a job besides PM. Anways, PM has to cover costs, possibly his costs of living.Another reason I could think of would be that he wants to spend less time on PM (and do other things instead), so he raises the price hoping less people will buy and thus save him some time later.So people, stop complaining! Either you want it, "suck it up" and pay for it, or look elsewhere.Please note: I'm not affiliated with PM, I don't have nor use PM. This is just the opinion of an outsider. :)While I do believe PM is overpriced for its purpose (its just a hobby for us afterall), I also believe its the only way for the PM team.Regards,Manuel

Anyhow, heres an interview for all to read which gives answers to the raise in price and also who uses the software. http://www.berrygelderblom.nl/modules.php?...article&sid=169"let's all wait for what Ferrari will do this year...Magics as always ;)"Lets hope so. Pre season testing shows Renault and Mclaren to be right up there with them this time. Its gonna be a great season thats for sure :-)Gary

>Lets hope so. Pre season testing shows Renault and Mclaren to>be right up there with them this time. Its gonna be a great>season thats for sure :-)Remember: last year Ferrari was even behind them ;)

"Remember: last year Ferrari was even behind them ;)":-) BAR was the biggest surprise though.Would absolutely love to have one of these sims in my basement. The best of both worlds thats for sure.http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/108293.jpg

>Would absolutely love to have one of these sims in my>basement. The best of both worlds thats for sure.I'd still prefer the female driver ;)