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Guest JIMJAM

ATI 4870 STOMPS 4850

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Like alot Ive been waiting for a excuse to dump Nvidia.The menu CTDs and driver musical chairs has got the best of this 10 year Nvidia owner.The bfg 8800gt was a great card but I put in a 4850.Same old FSX aa/af problems were still there but the overall clarity and look was better.Hard to explain but just cleaner looking.BUT!-It CHOKED BAD in the clouds.Bad enough that the card was almost useless unless you are vfr and stay out of em.Forget real weather settings when its ifr.ActiveSkyx. HA HA YOI GOTTA BE KIDDING!Needless to say I was upset.Today I moved up to the 4870 which requires 2 power hookups and is larger.Its also VERY hot.http://www.xtremesystems.org/FORUMS/showthread.php?t=192932A MUST MOD is the "fan fix mod". Its easily done simply by creating a profile, editing it by changing the fan from automatic to manual. Then entering you number you want. In my case I used 50. When you activate that profile that big ol fan comes to life and cools it way down.I have a open case with a artic fan cooler but even with my clock settings maxxed, cooling is no longer a problem.Fps overall is approx 20% or so better but the big difference is that the clouds/haze do not choke the card.I also noticed vc drawing speed up 2x as fast. Tree shimmer is also better.I run 1900x1050 and can tell a difference in the overall smoothness.Running fast and low in helis I can see a noticable improvement in the fluidity. That critical landing flare in planes is also smoother.Im guessing the faster ram is making the biggest difference.For 1/2 the price as the latest monsters which may or maynot do FSX any good, I can report IMO that the 4870 does rather well.I have not ran the card with other games as I have converted over to the PS3 but results Ive seen are very positive.

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I didn't think there was a huge difference in GPU clock speed between 4850 and 4870, but between the RAM there is, GDDR3 v. GDDR5. So perhaps RAM speed is a significant factor. Do you fly with AI, and notice any differences between the cards in that department?It will be interesting to see how FSX handles on some future Nvidia card with the wider memory bus connected to GDDR5.

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AI is Cpu intensive... but yes the 4870 is mindblowing when hooked up with a fast CPU, the best GPU upgrade yet.Rob

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Gotta Love Competition!These 2 cards are going up against $400-$600 cards. Well they were now Nvidia is slashing prices.Judging performance is hard for me especially if I get ask how it fares against the BFG8800GT OC I have.I run GEX,FEX,512 clouds,UTX and Use X-graphics runways,lights,airport candy ect.I dropped ActiveskyX and use FSX weather.Most scenery settings are all left, Buildings and autogen are one down from full. Whats that dense?I also use Mytraffic X at about 20 -30 airline and 20-40 GA.I have most ALL the payware planes and helis worth having.One day I am flying at tree top level in the Alphasim Blackhawk into bases I created with Instant Scenery.The next I am at Edwards with the X-15 doing mach 4 at 300 thousand feet.The next flying the Aerosoft Twinn Otter out of lukla or FlyTampa's St Barts.A2A 377 out of Megascenery Hawaii.I still have problems with aa. Its a MUST that I have aa/af enabled in game.It seems I cannot override them with the Catalyst.Remember I am new to ATI so I am still learning.The overall picture is GREAT. Still have the warts but thats FSX but Nvidia or ATI's fault.Ive also noticed some settings seem free.Bumbing up water from high/low to 2 low had a big graphics efffect but NO fps hit.Same with bumping up the ai,cars and some other settings.I am getting a occssional stutter but have not touched the .cfg or fooled with the cards settings much.----The catalyst AI,Box,tent,edge detect are all unknowns to me so any ATI users feel free to school me.I also just saw a new driver released from ATI and Nhancer and ATITOOLs are due to be released with suport for these new cards.Nvidia or ATI users this is a good time for us all.

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Glad to hear of your great experiences with ATI. Now if only we had that sense of competition between Intel and AMD, at least as far as processor for FSX are concerned.Simon

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These massive gig cards are like mini space heaters spinning your electric meter like a saw blade and its getting ridiculous.Reminds me of the muscle car fad in the 50s-60s.There are only a few games which really even use any of this massive power and ram and they are bugggy as ####.FSX is a fossil by todays standards and its shouldnt take all this firepower just to get acceptable performance.The 4850 stomps the 8800gt in all games except FSX.I think this race to see who has the biggest and fastest needs to slow down and we need some quality games and let the programmers catch up.Yes, Nvidia,Ati,Intel and AMD going at each other is good but having someone go after MS and FSX is what I want to see.$500 mini jet engines that can run a small town just to get 5 more fps is insane.

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>but yes the 4870 is mindblowing when hooked up with a fast CPU, the >best GPU upgrade yet.The best GPU upgrade yet for what? With CPU bound games/sims the GTX 280 still out does the 4870. With the exception of a few games I have that take advantage of multi-GPU (which do run amazing) my 4870X2 still falls short of the performance that I get with the GTX 280.

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How much was that GTX 280 a few weeks ago?You can find some real steals on Ebay on Nvidia cards right now.Sub $300/200 ATI cards right up there with the $600, I mean $500,no wait $400 Nvidias :-lol -Were you the one that said I needed to get a clue?"Unlike others I don

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"Anyway I'm not one of those guys that like to start ATI V NVIDIA wars"Me neither.I have no product loyality betreen either ATI or Nvidia.I have not used a ATI card in 10 years.In another post, I brought up the observation that alot were upset with the poor perfomance of the expensive and new Nvidia 280 card.These new monster dual gpu gig cards just were not living up to the hype.Especially among FSX users.The usual "the drivers need to mature" was the usual excuse.Anyways,This guy laughs at me and tells me to "Get a Clue".Just a freindly jab at him.He post 2 pics of 2 vid cards still in the box worth over a grand easy.Anyone with that kind of disposable income in this hobby should not take it personally anyways.But telling me to "Get a clue" got me a little :-fume

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I have gone from Ati Rage, Nvidia ti4200, Ati 9800 Pro, Ati X800XL, to Nividia 8800GT. Whom gets the turn next we'll have to wait and see. At the time, the 8800GT was the best game around. I really look forward to what will be on offer in 6-9 months time. Which ever camp you sit in, if either, the competitve situation make you a winner. And that is without even mentioning "larabee"Simon

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Agreed.FSX is the only game I have installed.I went strickly PS3 for my shooters and racing games.But I am going to reload Crysis today.Its been patched 2x and reviews are that the 4870 run it VERY well.When I played it 6 months ago with the 8800gt, the fps was bad and I had to lower the details down to nothing.So out of curiosity, I am going to reload it amd see.Same with Bioshock.

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>But telling me to "Get a clue" got me a little :-fume I said get a clue because you stated that the 8800 Ultra performs better than the GTX 280 with FSX, which is total BS. You then posted a link to Toms Hardware and to a review that used the beta 177.39 drivers with the GTX 280. Please let

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>>But telling me to "Get a clue" got me a little :-fume >>I said get a clue because you stated that the 8800 Ultra>performs better than the GTX 280 with FSX, which is total BS.>You then posted a link to Toms Hardware and to a review that>used the beta 177.39 drivers with the GTX 280. >Well even if he was wrong (which he was) that's still no excuse to tell him to "get a clue". That's not very civil and should have no place here. ;)Regarding the 4870 series cards, looks like ATI/AMD has finally got something that can handle clouds--is this correct? This is what I am gleaning from this thread.RhettFS box: E8500 (@ 3.80 ghz), AC Freezer 7 Pro, ASUS P5E3 Premium, BFG 8800GTX 756 (nVidia 169 WHQL), 4gb DDR3 1600 Patriot Cas7 7-7-7-20 (2T), PC Power 750, WD 150gb 10000rpm Raptor, Seagate 500gb, Silverstone TJ09 case, Vista Ultimate 64ASX Client: AMD 3700+ (@ 2.6 ghz), 7800GT

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>Regarding the 4870 series cards, looks like ATI/AMD has>finally got something that can handle clouds--is this correct?Not really, I tested FSX with the ATI 4870X2 over the weekend and it looks like it still chokes in heavy weather. I

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I'm on my way to pick this up at best buy and I'll let you know how it works on my system.Ain't nuthin' like a good product return policy! I wish all retailers would "get a clue" with regard to returns. :-)

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http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=67928Some really good oc information for any 4870 users who might end up here.Loaded Crysis and the 1.2 patch.Wow. I was actually able to crank up the details and not have a slide show.The highest res was 1600 and my native on my 32 inch Aquos is 1900. Looks great to me but alot of tree/bush/leave shimmers.Whats the deal with trees and video cards anyways?

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>Whats the deal with trees and video cards anyways?I think it has to do with the fact that many trees/bushes are made by using flat surfaced objects with alpha channel on the "leaves" and "branches" in the textures. (the area behind the leaves is still your scenery object, but it is made transaparent).Often the boundary between the visible and non-visible part of the texture has a lot of pixelization and near-RGB-0,0,0 black color (if the alpha was made from black, which a lot of them are). Together, this creates a difficult anti-aliasing scenario.RhettFS box: E8500 (@ 3.80 ghz), AC Freezer 7 Pro, ASUS P5E3 Premium, BFG 8800GTX 756 (nVidia 169 WHQL), 4gb DDR3 1600 Patriot Cas7 7-7-7-20 (2T), PC Power 750, WD 150gb 10000rpm Raptor, Seagate 500gb, Silverstone TJ09 case, Vista Ultimate 64ASX Client: AMD 3700+ (@ 2.6 ghz), 7800GT

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Nah man this Sharp Aquos is probably one of the best investements I have ever made.I have always loved a big screen and can remember paying over 3 grand for a 27 inch crt.Thing must have weighed 300 pounds.I run both my PC and PS3 on it and LOVE it.First few times flying FSX on it I about got air sick.I am sure my model 32GP1U has been replaced.I originally got the 37 inch from BB but thats just to big. As is I sit back 5 feet in my Pyramat gaming chair. Not the floor model but the executive looking one. Got it from Sharper image before they closed.Pushing the throttles forward and feeling your gutts rattle:-cool I can HIGHLY recommend it!But if either the Aquos or chair broke, I would replace them the next day.Tonight I am giving FSX a break and been playing Crysis.No mouse lag or delay.The tv is loaded with connections and menu settings so you can about set it up for anything.I have different settings for FSX,PS3 and now Crysis.I just need to get a better understanding of ATI's settings,what and how they affect performance.I found using the tvs sharpness has the biggest effect on shimmering.Take your pick. A shiny,glossy shimmering world or a slightly blurred one.Ok, back to saving the world

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>my 4870X2How does it perform with...1. Heavy clouds (where the 3870X2 trips-up), aaaand...2. Micro-stutters?Most interested in your reply as am about to get one meeeself!Cheers,-jahman.

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MUCH better than the 3870 X2 1 gb OC on my system at least! I just got it last night and bypassed the install CD in favor of the 8.8 ATI drivers and I've flown two complete flights in FS9 with Active Sky, Radar Contact, FS Passengers, and FDC Live Cockpit in my WideFS machine, 90% AI, all sliders fully right and Overland aircraft on my FS9 machine, and the 4870 Frames (which I still keep locked at a modest 28) are AT LEAST as good as my 8800GTX, with the added benefit of ATI's great visuals. NOTE: I did NOT buy the 4870X2. I may have actually cured that nasty "marquee lights taxiway lines" issue at KEWR!! I'm also using Bird's Eye View, Fight Environment, Ultimate Terrain, payware mesh, custom freeware taxiway textures, and all airports are either payware or custom scenery downloaded here at AVSIM. The 4870 wasn't even intimidated by my crappy Simflyers KPHL!I'm about to start approach on the third flight, an 8 hour long overnight haul into LIRF from KEWR, with all of the above addons sans ActiveSky (didn't want too much heat generated while I slept!), and I' pulling less than 270 watts, my cpu temps are at 65 c, and I don't think the card gives off any more heat than the nVidia. I run my box with 5 fans and the side ON. May be too soon to tell for sure, but so far I'm very, VERY pleased. I've always preferred ATI for Multi mon (AA and AF on all 3 screens!!!) but was sure this card would go back to Best Buy before the end of this weekend. But now it's definitely earned a longer stay -- at least through the labor day holiday.

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I ran Nvidias for 10 years and the menu ctd plagued me since sp2.I bought the 4850 from BB and as my post says, its poor but GREAT in very other game but FSX.The 4870 on paper did not seem like a huge upgrade but I think the vid ram it uses is ALOT faster.I am tempted to say its either the same or a little faster than my previous 8800gt. However, I do not get the menu ctds but rather just a black screen which I can esc out of.Judging the clouds is difficut. I now use the FEX 256 clouds. Whats strange is even raising the cloud res seems to have no effect on performance.I guess its the combination of settings,addons,machine,ect ect that all come into play.PLEASE- The card with the stock drivers gets HOT HOT.Use the simply profile edit and manually change the fan speed. It loud but even running Crysis last night on mostly high settings for 2-3 hours, the card never got near to what it did earlier just sitting.I posted a link to the edit above or google it.

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>PLEASE- The card with the stock drivers gets HOT HOT.>Use the simply profile edit and manually change the fan speed.>It loud but even running Crysis last night on mostly high>settings for 2-3 hours, the card never got near to what it did>earlier just sitting.>I posted a link to the edit above or google it.Thanks, JimJam -- I will do that, for sure, based on your (strong) recommendation.The difference I see is in my side view monitors. ATI has always handled multi monitors much better than nVidia, so I've been hoping against hope that they'd come up with a card or drivers that would handle MSFS and it's clouds. Looks like I may have finally found a winner.

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>Nah man this Sharp Aquos is probably one of the best>investements I have ever made.>I can HIGHLY recommend it!>But if either the Aquos or chair broke, I would replace them>the next day.Thanks for the info, I

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