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Guest 2002cbr600f4i

A couple questions by a newbie...

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Ok, here's a couple questions I have about the race:1) How do we go about coming up with the route that we're going to take as a team? Does it get planned out in advance or basically does everyone just go whereever they figure will get the team farther along in the goal?2) When will the rules for this year get posted (ie, the bonuses, the corridors, etc.) ?3) Looking at last years' rules, in the bonus section, they mention a number of bonus airports and also the "alpine challenge". Was the Alpine thing something that the team had to fly as part of the around the world path, or was it something where a subset of the team was flying that challenge simultaneously with the around the world path team?4) I thought that it was limited to 2 engine props? How is it bigger planes were used? I also saw some flights that were like 5 hours long! I thought it was limited to 2 hours, with 1 3 hour "wildcard"?5) I'm also surprised by the number of hours of "waiting" time that was racked up. I take it there are times when nobody is around or awake to "take the baton" ??? I would think to be successful we'd need a pretty good international mix of pilots to accomplish this (or some of us will be pulling all nighters!)6) I assume use of AP is allowed? Just no auto-landing systems? Do most people do VFR or do they set up a flight plan and do IFR? (I would think VFR + a FP set up in the GPS would make for the most direct routes and fastest navigation...)7) I saw that there's rules in place for aircraft crashes... What about for SYSTEM crashes (like your PC tanks, or your power goes out, etc.) Same rules apply?8) Would I be safe in assuming that people stay on the Voice chat and notify the team when they're getting ready to land and where so the next person who wants the baton can "pre-stage" his Flight Sim to be ready to go the second the "I've landed" message is posted ?9) Has anyone tried using the Duenna with FSX yet???I'm sure some of this will be covered during practice on Sat, but I'd still like to know. Thanks guys! --Mike

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I can answer a few for you - (1) Avsim has some of the best route planners around - guys who really know the world and the airports. You need to join the private team forum for more details.(2) General rules are normally posted in the week before the race starts. The final rules with bonuses, start location and challenges are posted less than 24 hours before the start of the race. The last notice starts everyone on an even basis - and avoids burnout from flying the routes before the race.(3) The Alpine Challenge was optional though every team compelted the event. The challenge had to be completed on the normal race route and was the last sequence of flights before the final run to EDDF by each team. Concurrently flying two different "Batons" is not allowed except in the Kickoff Airlift Event in 2006.(4) Any piston aircraft - even the 6 or 8 engined flying boats would be eligible. The longer flights in 2006 were purposely set to require big four engined piston props. In the past jets have been allowed for some of the long "corridor" flights. Turboprops are limited to two engines. Helicopters are also allowed.(5) Waiting time is about 30 seconds to 2 minutes between flights while the pilot's validation post is checked by his team. The total grows when penalties for over two hour flights, penalties for crashes and transfer to a wingman, etc, are added. It is much preferrable to have to sit and wait 30 minutes after a wingman lands with the baton than have the time tacked on at the end. Allows teams to know where they are in relation to each other.(6) Autopilots are allowed except in "classic" aircraft flights. The normal route is straight from airport to airport, though the altitude limit in 2006 required flights in the eastern hemisphere to avoid high terrain.(7) A crash is a crash - anything which does not allow a successful completion of a flight - flying into the ground, or the cat pulling the power plug out of the wall - it doesn't matter.(8) The original concept of the baton posts was before the excellent Teamspeak and Ventrillo programs were common. Today voice com is essential and the main way teams communicate and coordinate. The Baton post is still essential for tracking the teams and if questions arise. Also this is the primary way for people not on a team to follow the race.(9) Yes, Duenna records flight information properly in FSX - however it does not recognize the realism and weather settings in FSX. John is working on an update. However, do practice how to do validations with the Flight Analysis screen.One thing I would recommend - if you have FSRealTime DO NOT USE IT. The program resets the FS clock when you cross time zones and at regular intervals. This will cause Duenna and the Flight Analysis screen to fail as a flight validation.Good luck - you will love the experience.

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>1) How do we go about coming up with the route that we're>going to take as a team? Does it get planned out in advance or>basically does everyone just go whereever they figure will get>the team farther along in the goal?>We generally get a few team members together (usually at least one of which with FSNav), to plan a route that best balances the bonus airports while keeping the flight distance to a reasonable length so we're not going 10 hours out of our way for a 5-bonus-hour airport. This route is what we recommend the team follows. However, we can't force that route, because the rules basically state that it's up to the pilot flying the baton to choose where he/she flies to.... We recommend our route but can't force it.... >2) When will the rules for this year get posted (ie, the>bonuses, the corridors, etc.) ?Usually a few days before the race start, probably up to a week is a good bet on when to expect the rules..>>3) Looking at last years' rules, in the bonus section, they>mention a number of bonus airports and also the "alpine>challenge". Was the Alpine thing something that the team had>to fly as part of the around the world path, or was it>something where a subset of the team was flying that challenge>simultaneously with the around the world path team?>It was part of our flight route. Route took us to one end of the alpine challenge, flew the challenge, and carried on to the finish from the other side. Won't know until the rules are released if we'll have anything similar to it this year...>4) I thought that it was limited to 2 engine props? How is it>bigger planes were used? I also saw some flights that were>like 5 hours long! I thought it was limited to 2 hours, with 1>3 hour "wildcard"?Only turboprops are limited to 2 engines. Piston props can have 4, so DC-7's, Connies and the like are acceptable. I don't remember if the "over water" rule exception was still in place last year.. Used to be able to go longer than 2 hours if you were going over water and there was no airport within the 2-hour range.... Think that rule was limited last year, though.... Don't remember how the long legs were allowed, but they were legal...>>5) I'm also surprised by the number of hours of "waiting" time>that was racked up. I take it there are times when nobody is>around or awake to "take the baton" ??? I would think to be>successful we'd need a pretty good international mix of pilots>to accomplish this (or some of us will be pulling all>nighters!)>That's always a risk for any team, that the baton could sit idle because no pilots are available to fly it, possibly for long periods at a time... If we get enough pilots from around the world active in the race and they become available when they're needed, we should be able to keep the baton moving without too much delay. However, if there's absolutely no one available when I finish my leg to post the baton free, then the baton will unfortunately sit there until another team member does become available to take it...EDIT: There's also penalties that would cause us to wait around doing nothing..... If the main pilot crashes and needs to handoff to the wingman, that's a 30-minute penalty that we need to serve before the next leg continues. If we go over 2 hours, we sit for 3 minutes for every 1 minute beyond 2 hours (so, a 2:15 flight will net a 45-minute penalty)..In the case of the vintage aircraft legs, legs that use the vintage aircraft must be 1 hour minimum, but there was no rule saying the aircraft must be airborne during that time, so we were doing short hops in the vintage aircraft and sitting for the remainder of the 1-hour minimum leg time.... (Personally I hope this loophole is closed this year, although it was fun doing the multiplayer vintage aircraft legs last year with everyone flying the same vintage bird and then being able to kick back and relax or do some practice or whatever..)>6) I assume use of AP is allowed? Just no auto-landing>systems? Do most people do VFR or do they set up a flight plan>and do IFR? (I would think VFR + a FP set up in the GPS would>make for the most direct routes and fastest navigation...)I don't believe there's any limitation on aircraft systems other than number and type of engines. There's so many qualifying aircraft, and it's so easy to modify their panels to add stuff like autopilots/gps/taws/etc, I'm not sure they'd even be able to police it.... It's generally VFR, since we don't use ATC and following an IFR flight plan in ATC will slow us down anyway... Direct-to-destination flight routes very much preferred, so no delays by following a winding flight route with zig-zaggy waypoints...>>7) I saw that there's rules in place for aircraft crashes...>What about for SYSTEM crashes (like your PC tanks, or your>power goes out, etc.) Same rules apply?>Same rules apply. While unfortunate and unlucky, computer crashes/flightsim lockups/etc. all count as crashes, and need to be acted on accordingly. I know I had to throw it to the wingman once last year because my FS caused an illegal operation and died, and I know I'm not the only one... Which is why we'll want to make sure our computers and flightsim's are as stable as we can get them when the race starts..... :)>8) Would I be safe in assuming that people stay on the Voice>chat and notify the team when they're getting ready to land>and where so the next person who wants the baton can>"pre-stage" his Flight Sim to be ready to go the second the>"I've landed" message is posted ?>Absolutely correct. Being ready to post your "I have the baton" message and takeoff is absolutely critical to a fast and smooth handoff. Having the next pilot ready to post-and-go the moment the previous pilot has landed and posted is critical to a smooth and fast handoff. So, absolutely the current pilot will be keeping everyone on teamspeak up-to-date on their progress especially during approach. (A forum post here when you're 15-20 minutes from landing is also a good idea..) So, preferably we'll have a volunteer for the next leg ready and waiting well before the previous pilot lands....>9) Has anyone tried using the Duenna with FSX yet???>Don't know, but I'm sure the Duenna will be FSX-compliant by the time the race starts, if it isn't already..... It will likely need some modification to comply with this year's rules anyway.... :(

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>5) I'm also surprised by the number of hours of "waiting" time>that was racked up. I take it there are times when nobody is>around or awake to "take the baton" ??? I would think to be>successful we'd need a pretty good international mix of pilots>to accomplish this (or some of us will be pulling all>nighters!)I'd just like to say on this point that at no time in the whole race did the baton stay still because there were no pilots available. there were several "all nighters" pulled and several guys put in many long hours to make sure there was always someone available. In fact the only Waiting time i remember was as StoneCold says, during some of the classic flights when there was a minimum 1 hour time but no stipulation that that time had to be airborne. I'm not exactly sure what "waiting time" your referring to

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I'm not too sure how accurate that information is..... Don't think a lot of people had their Duenna set to record that information, as well I'm not sure if that information is only for the race or includes practice as well......

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Great questions. I was a rookie last year and can say that the classic flights on the default aircraft were great fun.

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The time between hops is pretty accurate - but it does include all "penalty" time for wingman transfers, lost time for having to go back and refly a leg from the start airport.If the classic flight is 30 minutes in the air and 30 minutes waiting - the 30 min wait is part of the "Time between legs".My figures show that teams average a little over 2 minutes from landing until takeoff of the next flight. That would be almost 3 hours with 84 hops.Our team at FlightSim learned the hard way that we needed to take longer and look harder at the verifications last year.One of the worst things a team can do is rush the takeoff pilot to be faster - and he forgets something important.

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Ah, my bad. When I read it I thought that was the AVG time between each handoff, not the cumulative total time. Makes sense now.--Mike

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QTEOne of the worst things a team can do is rush the takeoff pilot to be faster - and he forgets something important.UNQTEAll always, Reggie is right on the mark here! Believe me, you will be surprised just how high the adrenalin/stress factor the minute you post your "I have the Baton" message. So the last thing we want is the "clock hanging above your head" to compound that.Take your time - MAKE A CHECKLIST AND FOLLOW IT - EVERY TIME!!For instance, Flying the P-51:Fuel switch set correctly? (Your engine may be running, but how much fuel is left in the tank, you have switched to?)Tail wheel locked ? (Or you will have a lot more trouble getting down the runway)Flaps? (Did I stow them after the touch-and-go I just did?)Trim? (Same as above)DUENNA READY? (This can be hard to remember, since it is an external program)Of course, there are other things you will want to put in there.But make it, and stick to it. Take your time to do it! The team will much rather have you sitting on the active, doing your checks than having to do YOUR flight over again :) :)BRGDSSven Sorensen, EKCH

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