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protzler

You know what FS needs?

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A Seminole. It's one of the most popular twin training aircraft out, and no one has done one. Or I should say, I haven't seen one.I remember some unknown developer was going to do one, but that was a few years ago, and they dropped off the map.What we need, is one done to Dreamfleet quality, since they seem to be the Piper guru's anymore. Does anyone know of any other twins that are good for FS, that would be considered in the same class as the PA-44? Thanks! - Paul

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Lose an engine on a Seminole on take off on a hot summer day, and it is anything but boring. That's one of the reasons why it is a good MEL trainer, and why Piper keeps building them. For flight schools they make economic sense. For those needing to build MEL time, they also make great sense.I got my MEL in a Cessna 310Q back in 1976. Go rent one of those today (if you can find one to rent) and see what you will pay. The Seminole is still relatively affordable for MEL training. Of course, an old Seneca II isn't too bad either.In the real world, none of them are boring.These days I fly my friend's Cessna 421B, and it's operating costs average around $400/hr. Fuel alone is easily $160/hr. If we had a Seminole out at CDW, I would consider doing it, as it is not a far stretch from the three Piper PA-28s we are currently doing.There's definitely a decent market for a FS Seminole. :)Regards,http://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/images/F...R_FORUM_LOU.jpg

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"I would consider doing it, "HEY!! Hold on one darned minit!!Mister Betti - you need to be at that grindstone - along with that Golding feller!!!There's lots more himportant aireoplanes that needs attention!!! We need our 727!!!!:-):-):):-):):-):):-):):-):):-) :):-lolRegards,pj

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I'm paying $240/hr. for a DA-42 right now. It's a fun airplane to fly, but it flies like a dog on one engine. The FADEC also eliminates the prop and mixture levers, making it more like flying a jet, with just the 2 power levers. Kinda boring, IMO. :-)Still, it makes me wish I could find a Seminole in my part of the country. That way, I wouldn't be thinking "Aww man, there goes another 30 bucks!" when my instructor calls a go-around. :-8

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Lou, you should consider doing the Seminole...cause there are many folks getting their MEL on that. ATP uses the Seminole. So there may be plenty of folks who would buy it... I got my MEL on the Seminole and I was doing my Instrument ratings ob the Seneca I.Manny

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Hey Lou!Thanks for the reply!I haven't even thought about pricing any other twin besides a PA-44. Heh, I can barely afford an hour in the Seminole! I am suprised that the 310 is more expensive...though I don't know much about it. Are the engines larger / use more fuel? I thought they were in the same class.I also would have though a Seneca would be more expensive. It just seems like a different class of airplane than the 'nole.Glad to hear you'd consider doing one. Naturally, I won't hold my breath, as you have enough projects on your plate, and things can change at any time. But it's good that the idea's in the back of your mind. hahaThanks! - Paul

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>I'm paying $240/hr. for a DA-42 right now. It's a fun>airplane to fly, but it flies like a dog on one engine. The>FADEC also eliminates the prop and mixture levers, making it>more like flying a jet, with just the 2 power levers. Kinda>boring, IMO. :-)>>Still, it makes me wish I could find a Seminole in my part of>the country. That way, I wouldn't be thinking "Aww man, there>goes another 30 bucks!" when my instructor calls a go-around.>:-8Boring?! I read AOPA's review of it, and was intrigued! I thought the TwinStar looked like an awesome plane to fly! Though I can understand it being a bit boring on longer trips. But as far as technology goes, it's a really cool plane!Thanks! - Paul

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J.C. Howell: Happy to hear you are fly a 42. The DA42 is quite innovative and efficient. However for what one costs new, one could buy 3 or 4 used Seminoles! However, I do think Diesels are the future.Manny: If I can find a Seminole at CDW I'll probably go for it, as we will most likely be doing an Arrow IV with T-tail, so that makes the Seminole much for efficient for us to do.Our FBO used to have one, but I have not seen it there in a while. Sadly, we may not have a single Seminole available at CDW.We'll see what I come up with, as it would be hard to pass up with our PA-28 assembly line starting to move forward as it is (Archer, followed by Dakota, followed by Arrow, followed by Seminole???).;)Regards,http://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/images/F...R_FORUM_LOU.jpg

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Oh, it's plenty of fun. The G1000 makes it nearly impossible to get lost, although it does tend to make people keep their eyes in the cockpit more. Lots fo stuff to look at. :-)It just feels dumbed down a little bit without prop or mixture levers. We actually had to do a bit of haggling with the FAA to get the hours flown in it to count as complex time for a commercial license. Technically it has constant speed props, the fact that they aren't pilot controlled was a bit of a hangup.

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Hi Paul,A 310Q such I flew would probably run $300/hr minimum, think of it as you would a Baron. A Seminole at CDW used to run about $160, but that was before the fuel went through the roof.There will always be exceptions based on aircraft age of course. I just Googled and found a 310 going for $285. If you go to the big schools, rates can drop dramatically on all aircraft.I forgot what we paid for the 310Q back in 1976, when I got my MEL, but I think with instructor it was maybe $120 / hr wet? I know I had 10 hours multi, and I don't think I spent much more than $1200 for the MEL.Of course, in 1976 $120 was a lot of money!;)Regards,http://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/images/F...R_FORUM_LOU.jpg

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$1200 for your multi? :-eek Granted, it was a long time ago. :-)I'm looking at nearly $3000. And I don't even want to think about how much it's going to be for my MEI.......

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Heck yeah, I agree. I got my Instrument and Commercial ratings in the ol' Seminole ( or "semi-go",as we called them ). One engine? Down in Florida a fully loaded Seminole with two good engines can make for anything but boring takeoffs on a hot July afternoon.

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I'll try!!! :)If I can find one nearby, or find an owner who is willing fly in to CDW (that's very rare), we'll do our best to do it.It's not a far stretch from an Arrow IV, and now you folks have me really thinking about it.If anyone knows a Seminole owner willing to fly it to CDW, let me know, because my chances of finding one at CDW are slim to none.I'll make some calls tomorrow none the less.I'm willing to do this. No promises though, as I have two other Pipers to get out the door, and putting out products in this business is anything but easy, but the Seminole makes sense based on what we are now doing.Yes, a "Semi-go" is a good term for one!;)Regards,http://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/images/F...R_FORUM_LOU.jpg

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>$1200 for your multi? :-eek Granted, it was a long time ago.>:-)>>I'm looking at nearly $3000. And I don't even want to think>about how much it's going to be for my MEI.......J.C:Think about what I said. What you are paying is quite accurate and, were you even born in 1976?;)In 1976 I could buy a new BMW for about $14,000. The same car today is around $60,000.I would consider that $3000 to be reasonable.You're flying a DA42, I guess for your MEL?When I flew the 310Q it was in February. Cold, dense air, and 275 HP per side. That's more per engine than a DA42 has between the two of them!I was 18 at the time, and while a bit of a challenge, it was relatively easy.Ahhhh... the good ol' days! Otherwise, J.C. I am so happy to hear about your progress. We go back a long way, and my very best wishes to you. I hope we can meet in person some day.Perhaps I'll be flying to London, and you'll be the FO on the 787 I'm flying on.I wouldn't be surprised about that either!Regards,http://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/images/F...R_FORUM_LOU.jpg

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>I'll try!!! :)>>If I can find one nearby, or find an owner who is willing fly>in to CDW (that's very rare), we'll do our best to do it.>Hey Lou!Found a single 'nole in Essex county, haha. You have a lot of nice planes up that way! Out of curiosity, is there a Cirrus dealership around there? If you want the information, I'll give it to you. Note, that I don't know the owner, so it's a shot in the dark! :DJust sayin' ;)Seeya! - Paul

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Good for you, Paul, send me an e-mail at loubetti@earthlink.net (I'll get it out from my spam blocker).It's a good backup in case I cannot make a connection through one of the flight schools I know.Needless to say, I would prefer a Seminole close to home.Now, if I lived in Florida, I would have several hundred close to home!Regards,http://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/images/F...R_FORUM_LOU.jpg

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Nope, I wasn't born in 1976. 1980 for me. Hope that doesn't make you feel too old, Lou. :-)Yeah, I'm working on my MEL right now, as well as my commercial. However, the money is starting to run a little thin, so I may be having to postpone finishing my MEL for now. Finishing my commercial is more important at this point. And I'll be starting my CFI this fall.You know, this summer I'll be doing an internship with SkyWest Airlines. Which also has jumpseat/travel privileges. I'll have to try to get over there to your side of the country for a weekend.

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