Garry,PSS had a forum here that they supported for many years and things only went south in the last few weeks. They also supported a number of high quality products - not the one that Helge last updated about three years ago and continued to receive an income without lifting a single finger in support.There's no comparison even allowing for the fact that Helge is a one-man operation.

>With respect, you're wasting your time. Helge has never>responded to any email in over two years. Given that he is now>withdrawing FSNav from sale it would require a turn-around of>mammoth proportions for you to get a reply.In any event, I don't care whether or not he replies, I just wanted him to know how I felt about his program, and that I hope he doesn't pull it completely (I'm thinking freeware downloadable here at AVSIM -- if he's not going to sell it any more, what's it to him?)>>Regarding your comment about whiners and naysayers I would say>this. I was just reacting to what someone posted earlier about "whiners and complainers" -- I guess I should have quoted that OP. >Purchasers of his software we are perfectly entitled to>voice their opinions on someone who has singularly failed to>support his product in over two years. I have never>encountered such an arrogant attitude from any developer in my>15 years of using FS. He is truly in a league of his own!All due respect to you, Ray, as well, but you must not own FSUIPC or WideView! :-D I hear you, but there are far too many arrogant and self important developers in this hobby. The vast mahority are GREAT!, for sure, but I've never experienced such bad attitudes from so many - and I buy a LOT of software outside of my Flight Sim needs.Best regards,Chuck

Hi Chuck,<>I suspect it will probably end up hacked (no key required) on several sites. But if that results in the SID/STAR database being adopted by someone then that could be a good thing. It remains a quality product. I doubt AvSim would make a hacked version available.<>I own FSUIPC but not WideView. You don't mean WideFS do you, also written by Pete Dowson? You won't know this but Pete is a personal friend. I wouldn't describe his attitude as arrogant but he does expect people to read his extensive documentation before posting questions that are explained in the docs. If you've ever written supportive documentation you'll know just how frustrating this is.Despite being his friend I've have also been on the receiving end of a telling off so I make sure I've read the docs before I ask him anything! :-)

"I doubt AvSim would make a hacked version available."Ray, you got that right. :) If we could work out some arrangement directly with the author, we would love to host it, of course.

Hi Tom,If AvSim could host the SID/STAR database that would be brilliant news for those of us who want to stay with FS9. A not inconsiderable number I should add. :)But as you say this would require the author's permission and according to some reports his support address - [email protected] - is no longer active.Perhaps you could use your old boy network to contact Helge. A volunteer would also be required to make changes to the code assuming Helge gave his permission.Perhaps this bad news can have a happy ending after all. Fingers crossed!

I don't know about "hacked", but I hope someone can take it over and update the SID/STARS server -- that would be ideal.And, my apologies, yes, I meant WideFS, slip of the keyboard here (I'm trying to install and configure a new home network for a client while I'm doing this, and I'm going wayyy too fast!) and both Pete Dowson programs are great, but the documentation is not very well written. Understand I use both WideFS and registered FSUIPC programs extensively, and have NEVER had to ask for support -- but I am pretty technically minded for an old codger. BTW, his manuals go around in cirles, and take several lines to say what could be said in one or two, another shortcoming of many FS software developers. I do a lot of technical writing in my work -- no wonder people get frustrated with the documentation, and end up posting. They just want to fly -- that's always been the problem with complex software, from end user all the way up to CIO. WRITING how a thing works is not always enough.It's pathetic business practice to treat customers as though you are doing them a huge favor by answering their questions. Common courtesy is not that difficult.Chuck B

Chuck,If you have specific issues with the documentation about it being too wordy then providing you express yourself in reasonable terms I'm sure Pete would listen.Here is not the place for that of course. Pete has his own forum here but he's on holiday until Monday. http://forums.simflight.com/viewforum.php?f=54

Thanks, Ray, those are my specific issues. I am well aware of how to get in touch with Mr. Dowson should I need or want to. How'd we get off topic like this? :-D Oh, yes, for my part, I was just trying to point out that the developer of FSNav's attitude is endemic in the Flight Sim independent developer community. I really didn't mean to single anyone out, nor do I feel I need to defend my feelings. Everyone we've been talking about here has a little bit of my money, so there you have it. I merely hope he doesn't simply take his FSNavigator "ball" and go home.Thanks again Ray. Smooth skies!Chuck

Thanks for your views Chuck. I think we've covered everything. :-)

Ray, we are certainly willing to host the SID/STAR database, but it will take a volunteer to not only update it, but also get Helge to agree. I will check with my OBN, but I don't hold out much hope for that.

Hi Tom,The most difficult bit will be making contact with Helge. If that can be achieved then the other pieces of the jigsaw will hopefully slot into place.Miguel over at SimFlight received the message from Helge so he might be a good starting point.Good luck!

I love a happy ending:-0)Nice discussionBest regardsJan1,KINDWhen I push the button and it works, I'm happy:-)HP Media CenterPentium D 2.80 GHz Duel core2.00 GB RAMNVIDIA GeForce 6200SEConexant Falcon II NTSCXP SP2