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Sids Stars in FS9

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I was looking for any helpful information regarding implementing SIDS & STARS in FS9 and found the following topic: "Using SIDS/STARS with MS Flight Planner"Topic started by Paul J, Aug 12th 2006 (37 replies)Last modified by radivil, Jun 11th 2007 Great help in this thread. But one problem is after programming the Flt Pln as per methods in the thread, after saving it with all the waypoints listed in the FP and giving it a name, upon selecting it for a new flight, all the previously listed waypoints have disappeared. Now I have to redo it again. Is there no way that FS9's "Flight Planner" will save the work I did originally? I assume not. But maybe someone knows something I don't. Or maybe a separate flight plan program is the only answer.ThanksJim D.

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I did a "search" and did not find the post you mentioned.What did you use to search for it and I will have a look?

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If you're talking about loading a .pln (saved in the default flight planner) just don't click the "find route" button. The flight planner re-calculates the route when you do that. Just click "Load" and browse to your saved plan and click "OK" to get out of the flight planner. You should then be able to see your route as saved in the GPS and the kneeboard's navlog page.Jim

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I used the following: "Sids Stars FS9" (without quotaion marks). Should be the 11th thread down from the MS FSX heading.Jim D.

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OK,I will go try to find it.In the meantime.What aircraft are you using?With payware aircraft, like I fly the Level-D, there are instructions for using the FMC together with the correct NavData and SID/STAR procedure files to create a route "outside" the FS9 flight planner. Meaning the FS9 flight planner is not used at all. I never use it myself.Flight Sim9 uses bgl files for the route so you would have to enter each waypoint manually (including SID/STAR waypoints) to generate your own route. Some waypoints for the SID/STAR may not be in the FS9 bgl file.

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Ok,I found the post and read it.** it was in the FSX forum ... not the FS9 forum!The detailed response there was correct ... but, it is a pain to manually program that way, IMO.But it will work.The threads also mention FS9 does not directly support SID/STAR. Thus the individual waypoint insertions I mentioned earlier.

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Yes, I understand all of what you mentioned. My question was: After plotting the FP with a SID and STAR using FS9 Flight Planner and 'saving' it, reloading it only gives me a direct route, erasing all of the waypoints previously inserted for the SID and STAR.I hoped that the 'save' function in FS9 Flight Planner would save the plan with the SID and STAR as I had designed it.I know that FS9 does not recognize SIDS and STARS, so if you want to do an instrument departure using FS9 Flight Planner or a STAR, it must be done as described. But to do it again, it must be rebuilt and, yes, that is a pain. So I hoped that the save function would preserve it as written. But it does not. Too bad!!!!<** it was in the FSX forum ... not the FS9 forum!>Remember that when the FSX forum was created, it took over the FS9 Forum and so all previous FS9 threads ended up in the FSX Forum. Then another FS9 Forum was created, at least that is what appears to me what occurred. So a lot of FS9 information is still in the FSX Forum.Thanks for your help though.Jim D.

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reloading it only gives me a direct route, I've never had this problem with FS.But as Jim noted above - do not hit "Find Route" - just Load and OKWhile FS9 does not support creation of new waypoints with the flight planner - they can be created with notepad in the .PLN files.It's a bit more difficult to create and keep a library of SID/STAR procedures with the FS9 Flight Planner - but it can be done.I've done so with KDFW. I'll create a flightplan - then save it - but take a good lood at it and note which SID or STAR should be used with the FP.I can open the .PLN file in notepad and either add the SID to the start to replace the first few waypoints if I'm departing KDFW or add a STAR to the end if I'm flying to KDFW.It really depends on how much you fly to/from a certain airport and how much you want to work at the details.

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Reggie,Your method seems to make a lot of sense. What I'm attempting is not to create an entire flight plan at the beginning, just to create a SID THAT FS9 allows me to fly anytime when departing from a particular APT. Then I can adjust that to a particular FP when required. I'll give it a try.Thanks.BTW: I did 'properly' save the FP, but as Reggie noted, if you hit the "Find Route" key, all changes will be lost. So I'll give Reggie's method a go.Jim D.KSJC

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That is correct.Clicking Find Route tells FS9 to generate a new FS9 route.That is not what you want to do.

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At my request, Gerhard wrote this little utility which permits the world's best MSFS flightplanneer -- FSX -- to be used in the world's best flightsimulator -- FS9.Gerhard Berendt's flightplanconvert.zip converts FSX to FS9AGAIN:"Avsim File Description:In contrast to FS9, it is possible in FSX to implement user-defined waypoints directly into a flightplan by dragging and dropping it into the map (this goal can evidently be achieved in FS9 only with the assistance of AddOn tools like e.g. FlightSimCommander). This program enables the user to convert a flightplan, created with the flightplanner in FSX, directly into the corresponding flightplan in FS9, thereby making it possible to implement user-defined waypoints also in FS9 flightplans without the help of AddOns.Filename: flightplanconvert.zipLicense: FreewareAdded: 3rd March 2007Downloads: 572Author: Gerhard BerendtSize: 70kb"As we all know, if flying under FS2004's IFR ATC, one will be directed to fly the waypoints entered into the FS9 flightplanned DP but FS9, IFR ATC only directs the aircraft to the ubiquitous 90-degree/30-degree for the ARRival (STAR?) to intercept the LOC.Fly High . . . and have fun!P.S. Thanks again to Gerhard for this amazing FREE utility

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Try this:Start at KDTWDo a FS9 plan KDTW KJFKIFRLow AltFind Route (this is the only time to use it)EDIT buttonZoom inDrag route line (red) to select a new wayopint.Delete a previous waypoint.Save it as "Test"OK buttonWorld, MAP selectionQuit FS9Go to your FS9 flight plan directoryUse notepad to load the Test.plnVerify it is correctQuit notepadStart FS9Load any flightWorldGo to airport KDTWFlight, Flight plannerLoad buttonFind TEST.plnOK buttonWant FS to move your aircraft = NOFlight, Navlogcheck it is correct (should be!)CancelGo flyHave a good day.World, MAPCheck it is correct (should be!)

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Jim D,How did it go?If it works for you now, where in your original plan had things gone wrong?

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I'm still in the process of testing. Haven't had time to fly it. But I'll post here when I do and let you know how it went. I'll try today or this evening. Thanks for your interest.Jim D.KSJC

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I was able to fly a SID out of KSJC to KRNO (Mineta San Jose, CA - Reno/Tahoe, Nev.)It's late now and I need to be up early so I'll detail the programming tomorrow or Monday. I want to try again maybe this time programming the FMC.

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The SIDS are working very well. I'll post some screen shots later of how I programmed everything. Right now I'm having to make trips over to Santa Cruz as my youngest brother is in the hospital dying of a cancerous brain tumor. So I'm sure all will be patient with me on this.Thanks,Jim D.p.s. I'm having a little diffulculty with the STARS though, but I think I've figured out the problem. Keep you posted.

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Sorry to hear of the family illness .. wishing you the best there.The SIDS/STARS often call for things that cannot be easily done with the FS flight planner. No matter how hard you try.Heading to altitude or radial crossing before proceeding to a fix, for example on a SID.The only solution I have found to the whole mess?I use FSbuild to do the plan and export it to the aircrafts flight (FMC) plan folder.I use the the FMC to import the plan.Add the SID/STARS/ILS Approach as necessary.Connect to VATSIM.Clearance delivery often modifies your plan .. so now do some quick edits to the FMC.Do the flight (on line flying with talking controllers/real people).Now, that's as real as it gets! You might want to look into ? read up on online flying ....

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Good reading, thx.EDIT:I forgot to mention, that VOX ATC is my second best experience to VATSIM in flying in MSFS (fs9 & fsx). It is up 24/7 (lol) and can give you any approach you want to fly. I'm so surprised this valuable and realistic addon (#2 after the sim itself in my book) is so unappreciated in the discussions. Along with VFR and IFR flying it gives you visual representation of AI traffic in FSX (also even in FS9 ATC UK version). You can fly all the procedures you plan and it demands you literaly to speak aviation language to the controller. What can be more exciting (after speaking to the real controller on VATSIM) than that? You load your favorite aircraft, real weather, you work on your flight plan, make VOX understand it (if SIDs and STARs are involved) and off you fly.

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I use the free Super Flight Plnner. (I'm still using the old version)This can build its own database from the default FS9 one and can save flight plans in FS( format. I believe is can use other databases and save in different formats but I've never tried that.)I come with a set of SIDs/STARs that can be added to your flight. These are stored in XML format so it's quite easy to modify/update them as you want. Onee you've down that then they're immediately available for instant use when you next create a flight plan by a few clicks to select the ones you want.The documentation in the version of SFP isn't comprehensive and you may need to experiment a bit - but so what, it is free!

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There are several was to get the job done.I am glad your setup works for you.Looking forward to seeing your screen shots.

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