Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

sbish149

PMDG737-700 WONT FLY SID

Recommended Posts

When i load the sid TNT3E from EGBB, fly runway heading,engage AP,lnav and vnav all is fine untilit needs to make a left turn to follow the sid (D018I), instead it does a right turn of about 180deg, ignores D018I and heads direct to DTY34.If i intercept the fmc and adjust heading by 30deg left,start the left turn, then click lnav it follows thepath correctly.A friend of mine has the 737-800 and it flys the sid perfectly and he tells me a lot has changed software wise and i should get the 737-800/900, surely as i have only recently purchased this i dont need to spend another

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

When i load the sid TNT3E from EGBB, fly runway heading,engage AP,lnav and vnav all is fine untilit needs to make a left turn to follow the sid (D018I), instead it does a right turn of about 180deg, ignores D018I and heads direct to DTY34.If i intercept the fmc and adjust heading by 30deg left,start the left turn, then click lnav it follows thepath correctly.A friend of mine has the 737-800 and it flys the sid perfectly and he tells me a lot has changed software wise and i should get the 737-800/900, surely as i have only recently purchased this i dont need to spend another

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Graham, I think you have answered my question and i should have known better, i thought by engaging the autopilot sooner it would help.I just know ran this again and didnt select AP till 1100ft and it followed the path (ie turnrd left) albeight a bit wide but thats to be expected i guess.CheersSteve bishop

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Graham is on the right track. In order to make that 90 degree turn being that the runway is so close to that waypoint, it would have to do a curve restricted by bank angle. That curve would be on the inside never passing over that waypoint and that cornering might start two miles before that waypoint. You are still over or on the runway at that point.Check the SID chart and see if that is a fly over or fly by waypoint. If it is a fly over you will have to manually fly over it overshooting it and the line yourself up with the next waypoint using HDG if you want to engage the CMD control. If it is a fly by you can turn manually before it abandoning runway heading. Either leave that first waypoint out of the flight plan or after turning via manual or MCP HDG toward the second, if the LEGS stack does not "POP" do a direct-to by LSKing the second waypoint name, then LSK the top missed waypoint, and activate/exe the change. This will give you the course from your present position to that second waypoint.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You may also wish to delay you flap retraction & perhaps fly the initial departure at V2 +10/20 kts using SPD INTV, this will reduce the turn radius whilst keeping the SPD (the departure) under control.Kind RegardsSteve Bell

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok im back on this topic again as similair keep happening on different departures,ie turns left should be right or wont turn at all.For the moment im not going to go into too much detail,I have tested the same routes, same set ups on a friends 737/800 model and this model flys the problem departures on mine with no problem and with no intervention from the pilot.I understand that there are various ways to overcome this prob i have but the question remains:-Why does the 737/800/900 model fly these dep with no problem but the 737/600/700 model not without intervention from the pilot???Any thoughtsSteve Bishop

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, there were some changes in the SID/STAR interpretation (for example "turn right direct to fix") with the 800/900. The core 600/700 doesn't support them unless you upgrade them with the 800/900 package. Jan-Paul Schuchna

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No thoughts on why the two models differ... all I know is they are both quite old and when I became interested in creating sidstar files I was using the 800/900 add-on. However, I do have an idea on how to fly the SID based on my actual instrument time and that is you need to be flying the departure using the automation as a tool. I'd like to see the SID chart but I am at work and it will have to wait until I get home to log on to eurocontrol but it looks like it is designed for manual intervention. It certainly isn't a RNAV (RNP) procedure, which do allow the automation to take over most of the workload. No RNAV DP is going to be designed with a 90-deg turn one mile from the runway... that is a moderate risk maneuver that needs a pilot in the loop.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No thoughts on why the two models differ... all I know is they are both quite old and when I became interested in creating sidstar files I was using the 800/900 add-on. However, I do have an idea on how to fly the SID based on my actual instrument time and that is you need to be flying the departure using the automation as a tool. I'd like to see the SID chart but I am at work and it will have to wait until I get home to log on to eurocontrol but it looks like it is designed for manual intervention. It certainly isn't a RNAV (RNP) procedure, which do allow the automation to take over most of the workload. No RNAV DP is going to be designed with a 90-deg turn one mile from the runway... that is a moderate risk maneuver that needs a pilot in the loop.
http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/aip/current/...EGBB_6-5_en.pdfRegardssteve

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Per chart thanks to steve's attch:Climb straight ahead to I-BIR D1 or 500' QFE whichever is later, then turn right onto track 169

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK I purchased the 800/900 model which has cured all my sid problems i was having.To me this indicates there is a problem with the 600/700 series.Anyway new problem now just on the 800/900 which is, the spd rest 0/flap problem in fmc which i have seen on this forum before.Basically as soon as you engage flaps your speed rest will drop to 0 not flap manov speed.I have uninstalled both models and reinstalled but still the problem exists on 800/900 any help appreciatedsteve bishop

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The speed restraint 0 problem is due to a corrupt 737guages.ini file in the pmdg folder. Not sure what caused it, but if the installer has a repair option I would try it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The speed restraint 0 problem is due to a corrupt 737guages.ini file in the pmdg folder. Not sure what caused it, but if the installer has a repair option I would try it.
I cant see a repair function in the installer and did look in the guages.ini file as i had seen you suggested before but not sure what im looking for in there and what to change.can you guide me anymore in regards to this ini.file??Thankssteve bishop

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is what the PFD section in mine looks like:

[PFD]VLE=270.0FlapPositions=9// Default Values (for 700 too)VMaxFlaps=340.0, 250.0, 250.0, 250.0, 210.0, 195.0, 170.0, 165.0, 156.0//Specific values for -600VMaxFlaps_600=340.0, 250.0, 250.0, 250.0, 210.0, 185.0, 175.0, 160.0, 155.0//Specific values for -700VMaxFlaps_700=340.0, 250.0, 250.0, 250.0, 210.0, 195.0, 170.0, 165.0, 156.0

I believe this is where the speed constraints for flap position comes from.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Here is what the PFD section in mine looks like:
[PFD]VLE=270.0FlapPositions=9// Default Values (for 700 too)VMaxFlaps=340.0, 250.0, 250.0, 250.0, 210.0, 195.0, 170.0, 165.0, 156.0//Specific values for -600VMaxFlaps_600=340.0, 250.0, 250.0, 250.0, 210.0, 185.0, 175.0, 160.0, 155.0//Specific values for -700VMaxFlaps_700=340.0, 250.0, 250.0, 250.0, 210.0, 195.0, 170.0, 165.0, 156.0

I believe this is where the speed constraints for flap position comes from.

This is mine located in c/program files/microsoft games/fsp/pmdg[PFD]VLE=270.0FlapPositions=9// Default Values (for 700 too)VMaxFlaps=340.0, 250.0, 250.0, 250.0, 210.0, 195.0, 170.0, 165.0, 156.0//Specific values for -600VMaxFlaps_600=340.0, 250.0, 250.0, 250.0, 210.0, 185.0, 175.0, 160.0, 155.0//Specific values for -700VMaxFlaps_700=340.0, 250.0, 250.0, 250.0, 210.0, 195.0, 170.0, 165.0, 156.0Looks the same to me, the only other folder i can see with flaps in is hereC:\Program Files\Microsoft Games\Flight Simulator 9\Aircraft\PMDG737-800and there is a cfg file in here[Flaps.0]type=1span-outboard=0.690extending-time=35.000system_type=1damaging-speed=260.000blowout-speed=280.000lift_scalar=1.000drag_scalar=1.000pitch_scalar=1.00flaps-position.0=0.000, 0.000flaps-position.1=1.000, 0.000flaps-position.2=2.000, 0.000flaps-position.3=5.000, 0.000flaps-position.4=10.000, 0.000flaps-position.5=15.000, 0.000flaps-position.6=25.000, 0.000flaps-position.7=30.000, 0.000flaps-position.8=40.000, 0.000[Flaps.1]type=1span-outboard=0.950extending-time=35.000system_type=1damaging-speed=250.000blowout-speed=270.000lift_scalar=1.000drag_scalar=0.000pitch_scalar=-30.0flaps-position.0=0.000flaps-position.1=2.000flaps-position.2=3.000flaps-position.3=4.725flaps-position.4=0.000flaps-position.5=0.000flaps-position.6=0.000flaps-position.7=0.000flaps-position.8=0.000[Flaps.2]type=1span-outboard=0.950extending-time=35.000system_type=1damaging-speed=220.000blowout-speed=230.000lift_scalar=-1.000drag_scalar=0.000pitch_scalar=-30.500flaps-position.0=0.000flaps-position.1=0.000flaps-position.2=0.000flaps-position.3=0.000flaps-position.4=2.000flaps-position.5=2.000flaps-position.6=4.500flaps-position.7=8.000flaps-position.8=8.000[Flaps.3]type=2span-outboard=0.001extending-time=7.5system_type=1damaging-speed=250.000blowout-speed=270.000lift_scalar=0.000drag_scalar=0.000pitch_scalar=0.000flaps-position.0=0.0flaps-position.1=25.0flaps-position.2=25.0flaps-position.3=25.0flaps-position.4=25.0flaps-position.5=40.0flaps-position.6=40.0flaps-position.7=40.0flaps-position.8=40.0is there anything here which does not look right??By the way i did find the repair tool on the installer but that didnt work either..Regardssteve

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You files look okay to me but I'm just another user... so now there is another reason for the spd rest set to 0 other than the ini file and I don't know what it is.When you uninstalled/reinstalled was it a clean install (did you remove all pmdg files)?Might be time to ask pmdg support for assist. If you email them be sure you get an automated response (no response means they didn't get your message).PS: Please post the solution in the forum for the rest of us. Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You files look okay to me but I'm just another user... so now there is another reason for the spd rest set to 0 other than the ini file and I don't know what it is.When you uninstalled/reinstalled was it a clean install (did you remove all pmdg files)?PS: Please post the solution in the forum for the rest of us. Thanks.
Thanks for your help,For anyone else with this problem take note of the bold writing above after you have uninstalled.Got there in the end, it basically req an uninstall and then manual removal of every pmdg file/folder in my pc,then reinstall of 600/700 to fs9 root folder and then reinstall of 800/900 to fs9/pmdg folder and hey presto flap probs sorted on dep and arrival.Not sure which method worked the complete removal of files or the 800/900 model being installed into pmdg folder not just fs9 root folder.I am left with one problem which doesnt seem to affect anything yet which is on start up error message flight sim has detected incompatible aircraft or software file fssound.dll.I think this is something to do with the fly2 livery or a fly uk aircraft somewhere down the line.Regardssteve bishop

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Steve, sure am glad you got her going.Meanwhile, back to the original squawk. Have you tried out Steve Bell's collection of UK SIDSTARS? You can find them at the BAVirtual 747Hanger... oops, just checked that url and it is offline. Nevermind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

HiThis is a part of BIKF SID/STAR:FIX METIL LATLON N 63 58.31664 W 21 31.56666....SID SKAR1B FIX METIL FIX GAKTU FIX SKARD ... RNW 29 TRK 288 UNTIL 1500 HDG 079 INTERCEPT RADIAL 109 TO FIX METIL ENDSIDSWhen I choose this SID in FMC, I got message "DISCO INSRTD AFTER 1500" :(What's wrong? (installed 737-600,-700 v1.3 only)Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My first guess is it doesn't like the 211 deg turn on passing 1500.. the MD11 just won't do it. Next possibility is the heading of 079 doesn't intercept the 109 course to METIL. Either error will give the same DISCO error. I just did a dry run with it and got the same disco error and looking at it in the PLN view I am very certain that the problem is in how the SID is composed.The fix is to fly departure using MCP HDG until established on the 079 HDG then intercept the 109 CRS to METIL.I think I mentioned earlier that many SIDS are not adaptable to automation in the way they are written. This is a good example, should the turn to 079 be left or right turn? Both the 1500 ft altitude and the course intercept are "floating" waypoints that will have a different location based on rate of climb, speed and wind. Sometimes you just gotta fly the airplane instead of letting the otto have all the fun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for helpful thoughts! I'll try to modify SID to avoid two consecutive "floating" waypoint and will see result

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites