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brucek

Remember Sublogic's ATP?

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HiI still have it and it came with a great manual. Since it has a lot of useful info, I wanted to share it. I have a word document with a list of all the flights from the Career mode part. If anyone interested in that or other page, drop me a note.Regards

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ATP was so far ahead of it's time. A really great sim, too bad that SubLogic went down. I can recall the almost daily feuds on the FSFORUM at CIS, where proponents of FS5 and ATP would head-to-head. That must be back in 1994, as I recall. Those were the days!Bruce.

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I still have and use those big maps that came with the software, E1 through E6 and the high altitude airways.Richard

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Didn't the Sublogic group go to work for Microsoft? I keep thinking all this ATC, IFR flying and so forth in FS2002 has Sublogic's imprints all over it.Lee

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I still have it also(with 3d glasses add-on). It was indeed ahead of it's time.

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Oh boy...what fond memories! I can remember when I asked for it for Christmas one year. I was so excited because there was actual "scenery" in there, versus the FS4 Chicagoland I had at the time. Mainly, I was interested in Hartsfield, since I'm from Atlanta.The whole idea of being able to fly commercially with ATC and everything was soooooo cool! I tore open that box on Christmas day. I even tried to put it on my old Pentium-200, but I could never get the mouse or sounds to work (stinking Windows...). In fact, looking through my box o' charts, I have those ATP charts still today too!I'll never forget my horrid experience with the autopilot. What did they call it? "Roger?" Anyways, I would start out on my flights (and keep in mind, since I'm a typical male, I only read the manual so far as "throttle" and "gear" and "flap" commands) and would set the autopilot once I got up to cruising level. Then the plane would go up...and down...and up...and down...and I thought something was terribly wrong. So, I'd end up trimming the plane nose-up at some ungodly angle, and play with the trim the whole flight! Only later did I read about the oscillations and leave the autopilot be.I even wrote a letter to subLOGIC one day practically begging for some add-on planes. I think I chose the 727, L-1011 or DC-10, the 707 or DC-8, and one other, and gave a nice dissertation as to why those particular models should be chosen. :-lol I did actually get a response back, something to the effect of "nothing is in the works right now." Which is too bad, because they would have had a market in me.And now that I look back, the graphics seem crude, the sound is awful, and it makes FS2k2 look real. Still, ATP really began the love for commercial aviation in me since it finally made me learn navigation, communication, and other crucial flight skills, versus the infamous short hops from Meigs to O'Hare. I daresay that I learned everything I know about flying from ATP. Those were the days, my friend...And now that I'm awash in memories and starting to babble, I'd better get along to bed. It's April 15 tomorrow, and who knows what crazy clients will try to call me tomorrow (those of you outside the USA might not know that it's tax day tomorrow!).

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Hi Lee,"Didn't the Sublogic group go to work for Microsoft? "That's an understatement :). Bruce Artwick was one of the key founders and/or programmers on the early SubLogic FS sims- they were just wire strut models, but it was high tech then. Then- as the group became really into programming flight sims, along came FS4. It catapulted simming into the future, although laughable by today's standards. So futuristic it was that MS started looking, and wooed Bruce to join them. He also brought the code with him, which became propietary to MS. Then what was left of SubLogic produced ATP- as I said above, light years into the future, even in some respects by today's standards. MS claimed copyright of the code, and basically the court case prohibited SL from ever improving it- I don't think they could even fix bugs. Their days were numbered- but the bitterness continued for years.Bruce.

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Thank you for the sharing offer. I do remember buying it as it came out in the early 90s. And I still have it all, including the USA sceneries that came out later. To keep history straight, subLOGIC was owned by Bruce Artwick and Stu Moment. They sold FS for the Apple, Commodore 64, and other computers of the time. After version 3, the company started selling FS for the IBM PC and compatibles. Recall that to test for true compatibility, an IBM clone had to be able to run Lotus 123, and FS. I still also have that first PC version. Something happened between Artwick and Moment, and Artwick left the company to form his own, Bruce Artwick Organization (BAO); both located in Champaign, Illinois. He took the PC product line with him. At this point, they weren't part of MS. Later, after selling a couple of add-ons, Artwick sold BAO to MS. Part of the code in ATP was code from FS3. MS said it was their code, and after a legal battle in which, subLOGIC ran out of legal funds, they were able to release ATP, but a court order was in place to never expand it; they could correct bugs. I often wander what it could've been if Artwick and Moment never had split. Later on, Simon Hradecky released 3-D AGS, an expansion product adding high-res panels, and a set of 3-D glasses. The history of ATP continues with Simon, and how he, initially with LAGO of Italy, released Airline Simulator 1. In essence, ATP as we knew it, with 3D AGS plus European scenery and careers. Later it was AS 2, this one released on his own. He's working on AS3. Though AS2 is still based on ATP core code, major addon code providese three more airplanes with the best flight models of all PC-based flight simulators available today. AS3 will be all original code. In fact, almost as a gost from the past, there's still a mistery person that has insisted (read legal action) Hradecky doesn't reveal any of the internals he's learned from ATP inner workings. Sorry to rant so long, but I do remember and wonder.Dave Vega

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Remember It - I still have it too, (on floppies), andall the addons and scenery.We can't forget is because MSFS is still trying to get there!I bought it (them) from the beginning, and still use themaps as reference for FS2002 VFR in the States. Its a pityas I prefer Europe (Born in the USofK) (United Shires that is)and SubLogic never got around to little ol' GB. AND I didcomplete ALL the adventures before sucumbing to FS2000.Anyhow its great to see that these FS pioneers are rememberedfor their talent.MickBzHAND

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Hi Dave,Thanks for the corrections on the history of SL and MS. I never did know the full story, and what I did know is now in that part of my brain that requires a defrag :)I can recall the bitterness though, particularly on the ATP forums at CIS. I also used 3DAGS and generated my own careers, etc. If Simon can move AS3 out of the DOS environment, I'll be a starter to buy that. Bruce.

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Thanks, everyone, for the history lesson. I too still have the subLOGIC Flight Sim II for my (still working) Commodore 64 and AS2. I remembered part of what's been said but I never knew the whole story. Thanks again. R-

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I also still have it, in fact versions D, upto AS2 with masses of flight plans.It can still do something that MS can't, i.e change flight levels under ATC.I have very fond memories...David

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It's impressive that it was able to do that and more back in 1992.Dave Vega

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Yes!!! 10 years ago (1993)I still remember the day I bought it, waiting the trafic light to turn green and run home and fly.-Great airliner simulator for its era -Great Manual - you could learn a lot of things not just a manual-All USA maps, jet routes, Airport and approach plates and frequencies for 25 major USA Airports. -ATC between 25 big USA airports including ATIS and vectoring to ILS with voice if you had a good Soundblaster or compatible sound Card. ATC included Clearance delivery, Ground, Tower, Approach/ Departure, Center and ATIS. MS "invented" ATC in 2001 - NO COMMENT - but now I can fly online. - Pilot's rating system- Pilot's careers- Adjust Fuel and Cargo/pax on the menus- Running on my AMD 386/40mhz / 4MB RAM / 256 KB video Card PC configuration A nice feature: Runway only scenery, usefull on landing and take off. I flown on subLOGIC's ATP (switching to FS4 sometimes ) until early 1997 (4 years) where I got a used P90/16MBRAM/1MB Vcard and started running FS95.I will never forget this simulator Samuel KalachorasAthensGreece

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