The Facts Emerge

[LAdamson 240]

X-Plane has always been light years ahead of MSFS in terms of the most important part of the simulator - simulating flight through real world physics calculations, instead of table based lookups. If you took that, and married it to the immensely talented and dedicated MSFS 3rd party community, I can't imagine that anything MS cooked up would even be able to compete.

Then......................How come as a pilot, plane owner, etc..........I don't like FLYING X-Plane!!!! And I own versions 8 & 9 as well as running the demo's for years!Sorry---------------But it's X-Planes over hyped & mythical flight model, that's going to need some drastic changes before I can really cross that bridge.3rd party developers for MSFS have run rings around "blade element theory" for years...L.Adamson

[Staffan 12]

Hi,For some reason, I am not surprised at all about Microsofts standpoint.Just take a look HERE about my thoughts back in May 2007 regarding the future for MSFS. :(

[mgh 89]

Although there may be some lack of certainty in the article, it basically fits the facts as we knowthem:"Microsoft has closed Aces Studio......decision was made to align Microsoft

[Guest firehawk44]

Excellent reporting Tom and thanks for getting the info out of your "Sources". I'm personally not going to call FS "dead" for the PC until 2-3 years from now when the commercial addon developers have stopped producing FS products too (for the PC). I had a great ride and learned a lot about aviation and know I will learn much more in the next two years or so. I had a strong feeling MSFS was nearing the end of the development rope as FSX was just a basic engine and all of the improvements/enhancements were being made by addon developers. Few individuals liked the default aircraft, the weather, the AI, the landclass, the mesh, the textures, airport scenery and especially default aircraft lighting that came with the basic FS engine. Major improvements were made by the addon developers (both commercial and freeware). Maybe if Microsoft had developed a system like the NBA, the NFL, or PGA where all add on products have to be officially sanctioned by Microsoft the product would have lasted longer. Maybe not. Anyway it was fun and I truly appreciate all you personally have done for the flight simming hobby. Respectfully,Jim Young

[John_Cillis 2,406]

We have a simple new reality to face up to; Microsoft has changed their business model as regards the flight simulation genre and we are seeing the first steps of that new model taking hold. We can assume that a "live" version will entail online subscription costs per month or year, and additional add-on's will cost us.

I hope they fail at such a business model. They probably won't since there's always a level of consumer that will accept anything shoved down their throats carte blanche, but I think such a model of conducting business stinks. I certainly won't participate in any more betas for them--any invite will go in the trash. I used to separate my feelings for Microsoft corporate and ACES. Now I can feel comfortable Microsoft is run by just another bunch of corporate goons who'd probably sell the rights to their parent's homesteads if it drove up stock prices a point.Regards,John

[John_Cillis 2,406]

X-Plane has always been light years ahead of MSFS in terms of the most important part of the simulator - simulating flight through real world physics calculations, instead of table based lookups. If you took that, and married it to the immensely talented and dedicated MSFS 3rd party community, I can't imagine that anything MS cooked up would even be able to compete.

"Light Years?" ROTFL! That the X-Plane community is still able to still sell that line amazes me. A number of us have tried both sims and multiple generations thereof. Lacking from X-Planes real world physics calculations is a sense of inertia from my POV, which I think MSFS had captured very well and made easily adjustable. Any PC based flight simulation is just that--a simulation. The method of how an aircraft is simulated isn't as important as the end result. I've flown some of the most twitchy real life aircraft out there--LSA trikes and fixed wing. MSFS nails the feeling spot on of flying those aircraft and from what I read of GA pilots they feel MSFS captured the realm of larger GA craft better than X-Plane as well. If Austin actually heeds the well meaning comments of those who've pointed out the weaknesses of his flight dynamics, I might revisit X-Plane. OTH thanks to Microsoft I have a gross mistrust of investing any more money into the hobby. They've proven any business will dump their customers for this "new world order" of subscription based software regardless of market share. If they succeed I have no doubt any competitors will try their hand at subscription based software sales as well.John

[LAdamson 240]

If Austin actually heeds the well meaning comments of those who've pointed out the weaknesses of his flight dynamics, I might revisit X-Plane. OTH thanks to Microsoft I have a gross mistrust of investing any more money into the hobby. They've proven any business will dump their customers for this "new world order" of subscription based software regardless of market share. If they succeed I have no doubt any competitors will try their hand at subscription based software sales as well.

A few quotes from Austin:"With or without Microsoft, I believe that X-Plane is by far the best flight-sim on the market, and the development of new versions that we have going on behind the scenes right now... ooo boy, what's coming next will blow everything away that you have seen so far.""Plane-Maker is very user-friendly, and if you can just enter the GEOMETRY of the aircraft in Plane-Maker, then X-Plane will predict the way the airplane flies FOR YOU, so you need NOT enter aircraft performance into X-Plane, like you need to with MS... X-Plane does all of that FOR YOU. The X-Plane aircraft visual system is based on this geometry you enter in Plane-Maker by default, and can be over-ridden with incredibly detailed 3-D models if you like.. 3-D models that can be easily exported from AC3D."From many years of personal experience, I know that X-Plane definitely is NOT the best flight sim on the market in terms of flight dynamics, and that Plane Maker isn't near as powerful as some believe. In fact, X-Plane "old timers" will always point out it's many defiencies. At best, it's only going to provide an "in the ball park" approximation of what the real aircraft may or may not do. I've found that many X-Plane models don't fly near the specs or actions of their real life counterparts, and are vastly inferior to what's been offered for MSFS by third party vendors with many years experience. And add this to the lack of feel when it comes to inertial, dampening, power to weight, and mass...............and you get the drift.At this point, "the best flight-sim on the market", is still all hype, as it's been for so many years. Unfortunately, you can never really mention other models on a truely devoted X-Plane forum with out getting ridiculed, censored or deleted. Many X-Plane followers haven't tried MSFS for years. And although I still prefer MSFS, at least I've tried X-Plane for so many versions.In reality, Austin might just have to except the facts, that X-Plane isn't as outstanding as what he claims. I'm sure that 3rd party vendors for MSFS could make improvements for X-Plane if they really got into it, but who would take the credit?L.Adamson

[Guest christian]

Hmm, I may be alone, but being a 3rd party developer myself, I actually love the idea of an iTunes like store for FS. Live could be an absolute blessing for MSFS - I'm not buying into that whole doom & gloom. Times change, the Internet has changed how businesses operate over the last few years, time for video games to change as well and go with the times.Yes, the end user may have to pay more for additional airplanes and scenery, but the great thing is that you can pick and choose. Build you custom FS by picking your own components. And in rgds to freeware, as people have pointed out other games on Live are doing this already.Maybe I'm just more of a half full glass person.

[Geofa 108]

Well I can only think that the making a flight sim that is not for todays hardware idea has finally been vindicated.Since there will not be anymore flight sims from Microsoft-(at least what we are used to and expect), thank God Aces programmed many areas of fsx that presently are not being used yet (like scenery down to the lowest level resolution). This gives many years to fsx-and if a sizable market continues to develop and exist maybe at some point the bean counters will realize they have made a mistake...I find it ironic that in 2001 the 9-11 attacks came close to shutting the franchise down-yet it survived; only to be finally brought down today not by terrorists but by bean counters.The shame not only comes from the destruction to flight simming but real real aviation. How many pilot's of today cultivated their interest and love for aviation by being exposed to fs? Perhaps it is time for organizations like avsim, aopa,eaa etc. to band together and protest-on all levels. (Aopa just had a wonderful safety replay of a fatal flight using fsx to simulate the event. How sad to lose such a valuable learning tool for real pilots-real aviation loses out also.Last I was at the eaa museum in Oshkosh they had a whole room with ms simulators-to excite young people. The air museum in San diego has a wonderful MS sim right in the front for the same reason.).

[Daveo 36]

For my 2 cents worth I think this "Live" FS thing will be Microsoft's second biggest embarassment next to Microsoft BOB.

[dmaher 0]

Hmm, I may be alone, but being a 3rd party developer myself, I actually love the idea of an iTunes like store for FS. Live could be an absolute blessing for MSFS - I'm not buying into that whole doom & gloom. Times change, the Internet has changed how businesses operate over the last few years, time for video games to change as well and go with the times.Yes, the end user may have to pay more for additional airplanes and scenery, but the great thing is that you can pick and choose. Build you custom FS by picking your own components. And in rgds to freeware, as people have pointed out other games on Live are doing this already.Maybe I'm just more of a half full glass person.

I agree...Live in-itself can be a positive. All these other ideas that have been associated with it here may or may not be true. But....As I said I don't believe we're going to see a restricted model

[Johan_Dees 84]

I think something was going on behind the curtains, we probaly never know.Looks to me some managers werent happy with FSX performance, or there might be another internal reason to blame the ACES crew. Remember the multi core misjudgement ?All looks very like a calculated move, payback? who knows. But believe me, MS knows exactly whats it doing.Johan

[dfish 1]

All I can say is that this sucks!!!! At least I have a kick*** FS9 with every addon you could think of. I'll be getting a new system soon so I can run FSX and FS9 will run at light speed. So I've got enough to keep me happy until the next generation of flightsim emerges. I have faith that someonre will fill the void left by MS and develop new software.Dave F.

[dmaher 0]

....thank God Aces programmed many areas of fsx that presently are not being used yet (like scenery down to the lowest level resolution). This gives many years to fsx-and if a sizable market continues to develop and exist...

Geof, Sooo True

[n4gix 4,947]

Geof, Sooo True