Hi Avsim, good to see you back! I'm in the market for a nice 737 add-on for FS9. I've narrowed it down to 2 obvious candidates, the PMDG 737NG and the PIC 737. There's a similar topic over at fl*ghtsim.com which seems to sit on the fence somewhat. I have a high regard for PMDG products, but from what I've read the PIC 737 is a little more realistic and detailed. What bothers me slightly about the PIC are the numerous debates about FPS that raged up to a year ago over at the support forum. The last post on this topic appeared to be from march 2008, but since then no one seems have anything more to say about it (or given up!). Now that avsim is back, I was wondering what the readers of this august forum think about the PIC737 and the PMDG, with regard to performance, features, realism etc. In terms of my own flying preferences, i use ActiveSky, TrackIR, use no AI traffic and prefer wherever possible to fly from the VC. I run FS9 with XP (sp3) on a 3gb, ati radeon 1950xtx (PCI, 512mb graphics card), dual core AMD Athlone 4800+ equiped pc. I'd really appreciate your views.rgds//Seb

I find that the PIC 737 is better but it does not work with Vista even with the compatability addon - which is 5Euro Extra.If you have vista get the PMDG 737 if not get the PIC737.Andy

Hello Seb,It actually depends on whether you want an NG or a Classic. They are quite different aircraft.The PMDG is highly realistic even considering it was made in 2002 or 2003, even the real NG has changed since! The FMC features pretty much everything an FS one can.Both are the best (IMO) in their respective categories. The PMDG one, an FS classic is absolutely a joy to fly, no major bugs, perfect systems, just pure pleasure, not to mention excellent FPS.The Wilco one is also liked by many simmers although I remember people mentioning a few problems in A/P flight. A search here on AVSIM might bring them up. Hopefully, experienced PIC drivers will chime in.Just my 0.02 :(Seb, just out of curiosity, why don't you have any AI in your FS?

The PMDG is generally the more realistic of the two in terms of deep systems, although not in absolutely every respect, the cabin pressure system is better on the PIC 737 for example. The external modeling of the PMDG 737 is definitely better than the PIC 737. There aint much to choose from in terms of liveries, you can get a lot for both of them.The PMDG will give you two models of NG, depending on which package you buy, the PIC will give you three Classics and will also work in FSX, which is a major plus if you run both sims.So far that makes neither a clear winner, right? Well, maybe, but... The PIC has a better flight model in my opinion, and it has a more usable virtual cockpit too, with more functionality by quite a long way. The PIC also has a mission disk (FSX only though) and a dedicated co-pilot application too, although to be fair, there is an FS2 Crew add-on for the PMDG 737 as well, which is specific to the model, and broadly similar to the one Feel There produced for their PIC 737.So it will come down to what you want out of the thing, do you want an NG or do you want a Classic? If you want to use the VC more, the PIC is the clear choice, if you want to look at the external model a lot and want a deeply complex FMC and it has to be an NG, the PMDG is the one. But...There are other choices. First you have the Fifty North 737, which you have to add a panel to, since it is effectively a bare shell, albeit pretty one. But since we know you want a VC, that's that one out of the running, unless you are into doing complex merges, in which case it has some merit. Then of course (standby for a shock) there is the Ariane NG, which has advantages over both the PIC and the PMDG. Don't panic, I don't mean the 70 quid FSX Ariane, I mean the FS9 one, which is only 29.95 (that's UK Sterling). The advantages the Ariane 737 confer are a better VC than either the PMDG or the PIC, with a lot of functionality, including nice features such as window icing, good lighting etc. Its flight model is about on par with the PIC and the external model is excellent, although you'd better be happy with the paint job, because other ones will cost you more. Some fancy features such as a driveable pushback truck and working windscreen wipers add fun and unusual aspects too. The disadvantages of the Ariane 737 are, limited paint jobs, some functionality of the FMC is not implemented (specifically VNAV Path - not VNAV speed, it most certainly will do that - and the Fix page, which is non functional), and of course you have to pick just one variant for that 29 quid, because that's all you get, so some aspects of its value are questionable, although I'd say you do get what you pay for.Of the four, I would personally place them in this order, disregarding preference for NG/Classic, and based on fun and all-round usability:1. Ariane2. PIC3. PMDG4. Fifty NorthNote that if you don't do repaints yourself, I would modify that list and put the Ariane in third place, since the limited repaint availability is a bit of a set back if you are not of an artist bent, and do not like reverse-engineering textures in Photoshop. If you value good product support, bump the PMDG up the list too, their support is the best by a long way, and to be fair to the PMDG model, it is down the list because it came first and led the way when it did so, and in some respects, it still does.Other obscure options include the Tin Mouse freeware 737-200 (no brainer here, everyone should have it), and the EDimensional freeware 737-200, like the Tin Mouse, there is no VC but a lovely external model (also a no brainer, since it is free too). Both of these have good potential for merges and avionics upgrades to panels, which would make for an interesting experience. Last but not least, in a similar vein, you can add an FMC to the default FS 737 and that would give you a hybrid not dissimilar to many upgraded 737 Classics to be found in the real world, although adding such stuff to the VC would be a fair bit of work, and the FS9 737 external model leaves a bit to be desired.If we limit the choices to the PIC and the PMDG, I'd choose the PIC myself, simply because the PMDG is a bit long in the tooth these days. And yes, I do have all the ones I mentioned, and all of them get an outing now and again.Al

As people said, the choice is essentially between what era plane you want: you want new or old? Once you make up your mind on that question, it'll be easy to choose, since in my opnion, both planes are very detailed. I should mention that I was a bit disappointed to see that most buttons in the PIC VC were 2D. On the other hand, the cabin in the PIC is much, much nicer. Of course, this is all trivial stuff, but it's, in the end, what makes a difference, since in both planes the systems are very realistic. The exterior models of both I find very good, for the rest, so not much to say there. As for the price, you might be getting more value if you buy the PMDG, but do note that if you want the 800/900 series 737, you have to buy the 600/700 series package first!But yeah, do you want an older or newer plane? I find myself liking the Wilco PIC much more, because I really like older planes. This is not to say I don't enjoy flying the PMDG aircraft, though.One word of advice: PMDG is updating the 737NG to the 737NGX. I heard it will also be released for FS9 in the end, so it might be worthwhile to, if you want them both, first buy the Wilco PIC, and wait with the PMDG until we know more about the NGX by PMDG.

All, thank you for your replies - i was reading from one post to the next going "PIC!" .. "no, PMDG!"... "ehm, PIC!"... "Ariane ..?"I'm a stickler for the older planes, the ones with gauges, the ones that dont require screen cleaners, so the PIC would have my preference; again, thanks for all the advice. As for why I don't do AI, well, someone once told me that AI planes kill the frame rates, and even though I've upgraded hardware since then and my rig could probably handle AI traffic, I've just gotten used to the empty skies :-)//Seb

As for why I don't do AI, well, someone once told me that AI planes kill the frame rates, and even though I've upgraded hardware since then and my rig could probably handle AI traffic, I've just gotten used to the empty skies :-)

Well, you might have heard of World-of-ai, it's quite FPS friendly and it has all the major airlines in case you change your mind and want to populate your skies :( My specs are lower than yours and I run about 100 WOAI packages at a solid 20FPS at big airports. A significant hit on frames are undoubtably heavy clouds!

I own both and love both. I am more of an NG fan and fly the PMDG bird more mind you. The PMDG bird also has a nicer VC (I fly mainly from the VC) and is better looking. The Wilco 737 is an excellent bird though, just because they did a crappy job on the airbuses shoudln't let you hold that against them on the 737 classic. I do like doing flights in it and it also had WX radar and most of the systerms are modeled.I say get both..... :(

I own both and love them both. I flew both for Midcontinent Virtual Airlines, but as we had about 50 300s, 30 400s, 5 700s, and 3 800s. I generally ended up flying mostly the PIC. Both have a strong fan base which gives good support for any of the small issues you may find with either, including good tweaks if you feel you might want to fine tune your settings on them. I do like the modeling of multiple engines on the PIC, which allowed me to jump between the two engine types on our 300s. If you get the PIC, I would say look on the library (once it's back) for some third-party sound files though as a few of the sounds on the aircraft are a little out-of-wack. There were a couple good sound packages when you searched for PIC, so hopefully they'll be there for you when it returns.

All, thank you for your replies - i was reading from one post to the next going "PIC!" .. "no, PMDG!"... "ehm, PIC!"... "Ariane ..?"I'm a stickler for the older planes, the ones with gauges, the ones that dont require screen cleaners, so the PIC would have my preference; again, thanks for all the advice. As for why I don't do AI, well, someone once told me that AI planes kill the frame rates, and even though I've upgraded hardware since then and my rig could probably handle AI traffic, I've just gotten used to the empty skies :-)//Seb

Seb-If you're still deliberating...If you like the legacy planes have you tried the Timouse II? Freeware available through Flightsim.com and AVSIM (when her library is back up). The 2D panel is one fo the best I've ever seen whether you're talking free or payware. The best flight modeling as well. You can see the gear compress when spoilers are deployed on landing, for instance. If you absolutely have to have a VC then the PIC is probably up your alley. In my humble opinion however; the PMDG product is the better simulator - hands down. Also has a better exterior modeling as previously mentioned. Gear compression a lot more realistic as well. The PMDG VC is more demanding on your PC resources though, so if that's a factor go with the PIC. Agree with the previous post that advised PMDG is releasing a new NG within the next few months so I would hold out for that one if it promises to be anything like the MD-11. Hope this helps Seb.-Greg

Hi guys, thanks for all the replies - it's been very helpful. So, the winner is ...... PIC!Purchased and downloaded this evening, had a quick pattern around KSEA in 2d and VC, looks very impressive indeed. FPS a steady 25.6 (i'm locked at 26), in VC, so that's good! Downloaded some liveries (KLM, Easyjet, Aer Lingus - i do most of my flying around the UK, Ireland and Netherlands/Belgium) and now have some reading to do with the manuals!thanks again and remember to keep the shiny side up and the pointy bit going forward!//S

Oh, I now remember something I had wanted to warn you about: The PIC manual is utter crap. If you want to do an actual full-blown start up in a cold and dark cockpit, I recommend you to download an checklist from the Avsim file library.Beside that, I'm glad we could be of help. :)

I hope you enjoy it as much as I have. I only wish Midcon was still flying them, as it was fun getting dispatch releases and taking it up.