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lcseale53

Lining up on late,late final?

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I often find that I am a little off the runway centreline on late, late final. Either I am a lousy flyer or it is harder to line up in the Sim than in real life as most (all?) small aircraft that I see landing seem to nail the centrline everytime. :)Anyway, I always use bank to try to line up as much as possible on late final - but am wondering if this is the correct technique. Could ruddder be used as an alternative?Thanks Barry

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Small corrections is key. When you're set up 5-7 miles out (in a jet, turboprop or other fast moving aircraft), or 2-3 miles (in a small prop), take note of the runway position in the windscreen. If it moves down, you're drifting high, up means you're drifting low. If it goes left, you're drifting right, moving right means you're drifting left. Make small 3-5 degree corrections to bring it back to that reference point on your windscreen. This is not to say that the position in your windscreen that you have chosen is the correct approach path, but its a way for you to know what your trend is once you have established yourself on the extended runway centerline.You may get responses from others telling you to use the ILS. I totally disagree with this, as that defeats the purpose of a visual approach. And I'd be willing to bet that 75% of the airports in the world don't have ILS equipment

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Barry,If you are flying the small GA planes then you can come in a little high (which you would want to do in real life in the event of an engine failure) and then slip it in to drop your altitude without gainging air speed. There are two different ways to come in, either to crab or forward slip. With the forward slip use the rudder to keep the plane lined up with the centerline and maintain your track with your ailerons. This method will keep you on the centerline for good landings.Hope this helps...

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mmm.. mind if i jump in here a little, whats the diff. between crabbing and doing a forward slip?and then whats the deal when you have opposite rudder/aileron, what that called?ciao!Brian S

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Crabbing is simply allowing the aircraft to compensate for the wind by pointing the nose into it. The longitudinal axis of the aicraft is not parallel to the runway centerline. This is what you see airliners do right until the flare, then they 'kick and roll' into a forward slip for touchdown.A forward slip is where the pilot uses aileron to 'roll' into the wind, and uses (opposite) rudder to keep the longitudinal axis of the aircraft parallel to the runway centerline. In other words, he's cross controlling the aircraft to compensate for the wind. As I mentioned before, airliners do this right before touchdown to reduce the sideloads on the mains. Its a little harder for the big boys to use a forward slip all the way down the approach path.

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Small aircraft.I fly myself a small aircraft (Student Pilot). Rallye MS880. On final stay on course using the rudder and compensate with the alerons to keep the wings level. Make sure that your speed is right and when to slow or coming to steep add a little more power. Normally keep the nose down and above the tresh hold cut the power and keep the aircraft in the air, slowly pulling the stick back, with the nose up a few degrees and she will fly onto the runway. Note that under cross wind conditions you straigthen up on the last few feet above the runway. The combination of rudder and opposite alerons is called crossed control.

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I dislike the 'wing down' method as described above in some cases...both in my real life flying, but even more so in Flight Sim. For small crosswinds it is PERFECTLY sufficient, and I use it with great success, but in strong, and particularly gusty conditions, you find yourself constantly 'fighting' the aircraft to keep the nose on the centre line, and the correct angle of bank to stop the yaw becoming dominant. In FS I find this even more difficult, and therefore I always use the crabbing method.Regards,Al Summers.

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a little trick; as you get closer to the runway shift your "view point" to the far end of the runway. it'll help, since the closer you get to the threshold the wider the "angle" and the more difficult it becomes to avoid"correcting your corrections" the plane is equipped with controlls for 3 axis, don't hesitate to use them all. practice, practice, practice. tt

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Hi. Well if you are having problems lining up try this. When i first started flying heavies instructors would say always put your inboard foot inline with the center of the runway. So no matter what seat i flew from i positioned the plane so that my inboard foot was inline with center line. But for flight sim try this. First fly with no winds.When the plane is aligned by flightsim for take off look at your instrument panel. Pick something that is inline with the centerline of the runway way. This could even be the auto throttle switch or what ever. Now take off. when turning final align this visual reference with the runway. Continue to do this through touch down. Its easier in the real world because of all of the visual ques you have. We use so many visual references for every thing...From aerial refueling to knowing where your left and right mains are tracking while in taxi. Soon that picture will burn into your mind and aligning with the runway will seem second nature. Then you will be ready for winds

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Really?Rudder for directional control?I can't imagine an instructor encouraging a student getting into uncoordinated flight on final.I dont' know what a Rallye MS880 is, though, so perhaps on that aircraft it's common...Andrew>Small aircraft.>>I fly myself a small aircraft (Student Pilot). Rallye MS880.>On final stay on course using the rudder and compensate with>the alerons to keep the wings level. Make sure that your speed>is right and when to slow or coming to steep add a little more>power. Normally keep the nose down and above the tresh hold>cut the power and keep the aircraft in the air, slowly pulling>the stick back, with the nose up a few degrees and she will>fly onto the runway. Note that under cross wind conditions you>straigthen up on the last few feet above the runway. The>combination of rudder and opposite alerons is called crossed>control.

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After reading all th e other replies here, I think they may be missing something here that has nothing to do with flying and everything to do with the sim.Ive noticed the lineup problem too, and Ive been flying for a long time. There appears to me to be some sort of perspective problem with FS.Maybe Im sitting too much to the right or left of the centerline of the screen, and it throws me off.But getting perfectly on the centerline can be a real chase until the final moments before touchdown.Maybe Im wrong...Any thoughts from others???JohnWNewburgh, IN

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Hi John - Well, there is an easy way to figure this out - Get on a runway with an ILS....Go into slew mode... I think you see where this is going!cheers,Andrew>After reading all th e other replies here, I think they may>be missing something here that has nothing to do with flying>and everything to do with the sim.>Ive noticed the lineup problem too, and Ive been flying for a>long time. >There appears to me to be some sort of perspective problem>with FS.>Maybe Im sitting too much to the right or left of the>centerline of the screen, and it throws me off.>But getting perfectly on the centerline can be a real chase>until the final moments before touchdown.>>Maybe Im wrong...>Any thoughts from others???>>JohnW>Newburgh, IN

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"After reading all th e other replies here, I think they may be missing something here that has nothing to do with flying and everything to do with the sim.Ive noticed the lineup problem too, and Ive been flying for a long time. There appears to me to be some sort of perspective problem with FS."John,This is how it is taught in when flying small planes. I learned this technique in flight school and I went to a pretty well known school. Using the slip method is very popular in small aircraft. The book you should check (I think it is a great reference for manuevers) is the "Airplane Flying Handbook" (FAA-H-8083-3). There is a lot of information in it. You might be able to download it for free from the www.faa.gov.

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Hi Barry,Due to the depth perception available in real flying vs. the 2D flat image we have in our monitors, I find lining up in the real a/c much easier than in the sim. I also have this issue in the sim, but almost never in real flying.Bruce.

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I would have to second on what Bruce says in that it is much harder to line up in the sim than it is in real life.I find it much harder to judge the approach vertically if you fly a straight in approach in real life if you don't have some sort of vertical guidance either visually or electronically like a VASI or an ILS glideslope. Sometimes if both are available, they may not be coincident. However, flying straight in does allow you longer to get your line up correct, either thru crabbing or slipping, but I find lining up on centerline much easier to do in real life than in the sim.I personally like crabbing, because it keeps passengers comfortable, switching into a sideslip to get my main gear aligned down the runway just before touchdown. Keeps the time I'm uncoordinated to a minimum. In real life, the winds are never exactly the same every second, so you always adjusting, reevaluating, and readjusting making minute changes to your flight controls all the time during your approach, landing and rollout.Cheers :)Woodreau / KMVL

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