Fiber Frame Time Fraction value and its effect

[gman! 1]

I give up!I guess that if you really believe that the fft setting work it's good for you.

You sir, are daft. First of all in the tile it CLEARLY states that he is not talking about Vanilla (Stock) FSX. He was talking about it and the relationship to TILEPROXY. Second of all I can tell you have never even used the tweak before and you have clearly not used Tileproxy if you think it doesn't work. Once again Phil Taylor and NickN did not use Tileproxy and maybe have still never used Tileproxy at the time they posted those comments about the Fiber Frame Fraction tweak. Do you even know what fibers are? They are like smaller threads created on a core to help divide tasks and make a speedup overall. That is why it works so well on single core PCs, and will still give a benefit on a quad core... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiber_%28computer_science%29You sir are spreading false rumors, you really need to try something before you start making false statements about it. Do you think the developer of Tileproxy that has been working on the program for an extremely long time, is a computer programmer and enthusiast, and the person that made the program in the first place would seriously give out the tweak if he knew it had NO EFFECT WHATSOEVER just like you think??There is no point of even arguing with you anymore because before no matter what mark said you would not listen, and you still won't even listen when we both have elaborated clearly why it works with Tileproxy. Next time when someone posts a tweak and claims it works with a certain add-on instead of shooting him down for it when he was not even asking if the tweak worked for stock FSX, GET THE ADD-ON, TRY THE TWEAK, LOOK STRAIGHT DOWN AT THE SCENERY ZOOMED OUT FROM THE SPOT VIEW and look at the results... The fiber frame fraction even has an effect on the default scenery, and I know because i tried it today with the default scenery today. Try it yourself it will not hurt fsx and its always removable. All you have to do is add the line, go into spot view, zoom out to where you can see a wide area, and see if the outlying scenery is blurry with the current fiber frame fraction value, and then open the fsx.cfg file edit the fiber frame fraction line, then in FSX instead of REBOOTING, LOAD the fsx.cfg IN FLIGHT by using the menu and putting "%appdata%\Microsoft\FSX" in the Address Bar, then load the file and see how much slower/faster your scenery loads...

[Guest UlfB]

...You can even try with the default scenery. If your fiber frame fraction is very low, depending on your affinity mask the scenery close to you will either update slowly and then update the mip to the highest resolution when your very close, or it will load very far away with a high fiber frame fraction value (E.g. 0.66+)...

I tried with a setting of 0.10 and then 0.90 and used Hawaii photoreal scenery as test location. I also tried to slew a short distance to watch how textures loaded. No difference at all regarding how fast the textures loaded.

[markturner 0]

I did not want this thread to disolve into a shouting match, I just wanted some in depth information to help explain what I had seen. I am objective enough, clever enough and old enough to know what I am seeing as a result of careful and measured testing on my machine with my settings. Ulf, its crazy for you to try and tell me from Sweden what I am seeing or not seeing on my machine. As a clever person yourself, dont you think you should be more interested in finding out WHY I am seeing this rather than trying to convince me I am not? cheers, MarkEdit: If the tweak was only of value to pre SP2 installers or users of single core machine ( surely in the very small minority) why did Christian not point this out in his extremely detailed manual notes? He discusses just about everything else......

[gman! 1]

I tried with a setting of 0.10 and then 0.90 and used Hawaii photoreal scenery as test location. I also tried to slew a short distance to watch how textures loaded. No difference at all regarding how fast the textures loaded.

Just a warning, some this post isn't sarcastic, trying to insult you, put you down, etc. Maybe you can't tell if your getting the highest resolution scenery and a mip when your looking at your scenery? Look straight down in the spot view, there should be a sort of ring of the maximum resolution scenery and outside the ring there should by mip-maps, or more blurry scenery... Change your fiber frame fraction and see how fast it updates...

Edit: If the tweak was only of value to pre SP2 installers or users of single core machine ( surely in the very small minority) why did Christian not point this out in his extremely detailed manual notes? He discusses just about everything else......

Exactly what I'm thinking. Sorry about before, wasn't trying to make it a shouting match, I try and use bold, and underline so the reader can clearly see the important things. I guess I'll use colors instead...

[n4gix 4,947]

This is all very, very interesting. From what I understand, the code that implemented that tweak was removed from fsx.exe entirely as of SP2 and Acceleration... :(

[LuisFelizTirado 33]

In addition to what Bill says, if anybody testing this has not quit FS X, then the cache has not been emptied and tiles may very well load faster. So, simply loading another cfg file is not a rigorous test.Please try:1. turn off all weather, ai (aircraft, vehicles, etc.), and any other intrusive element, so as to isolate the situation from other variables;2. save a flight;3. quit FS;4. load FS, measure performance;5. quit FS;6. load FS, change cfg file, measure performance;7. etc.Then, and only then, can anybody start making claims as to improved performance. And, Mark may just be right after all. Or not. No offense intended, Mark.Best regards.Luis

[gman! 1]

In addition to what Bill says, if anybody testing this has not quit FS X, then the cache has not been emptied and tiles may very well load faster. So, simply loading another cfg file is not a rigorous test.Please try:1. turn off all weather, ai (aircraft, vehicles, etc.), and any other intrusive element, so as to isolate the situation from other variables;2. save a flight;3. quit FS;4. load FS, measure performance;5. quit FS;6. load FS, change cfg file, measure performance;7. etc.Then, and only then, can anybody start making claims as to improved performance. And, Mark may just be right after all. Or not. No offense intended, Mark.Best regards.Luis

Yes I guess this is true. I guess he'll have to test more and see. I fly over new scenery though instead of the same area, so I'm not really sure I also know that the Fiber frame has something to do in FSX, because if you increase it too much things start to get very choppy and frames go down south, but if you keep the value small then the frames are up and the scenery loads a bit slower depending on other settings. I'm running SP2 without Acceleration BTW.I apologize if I came on too aggressive before...

[GHarrall 494]

"FALSE... Phil Taylor, Nick and other major developrs are reffering to the fiber frame tweak with the default scenery and other landclass based scenery (exp. Orbx FTX, GEX, UTX, etc). It will not have much effect with those kinds of scenery, and the fiber frame is functional no matter how many cores you have... Many FSX users (including developrs) have not used Tileproxy or any Photoscenery therefore they think that it doesn't have much effect, but with certain types of scenery it can have a minor or major effect. The usually run a VANILLA FSX, due to the fact that they develop products and they want to make sure it will work on the customers PCs."LOL.....Phil Taylor was the project lead for FSX and he clearly stated at the time of SP2 launch that this tweak would not do anything on a multicore cpu running SP2 .exeI would say this is 'straight from the horses mouth' wouldn't you?

[markturner 0]

"FALSE... Phil Taylor, Nick and other major developrs are reffering to the fiber frame tweak with the default scenery and other landclass based scenery (exp. Orbx FTX, GEX, UTX, etc). It will not have much effect with those kinds of scenery, and the fiber frame is functional no matter how many cores you have... Many FSX users (including developrs) have not used Tileproxy or any Photoscenery therefore they think that it doesn't have much effect, but with certain types of scenery it can have a minor or major effect. The usually run a VANILLA FSX, due to the fact that they develop products and they want to make sure it will work on the customers PCs."LOL.....Phil Taylor was the project lead for FSX and he clearly stated at the time of SP2 launch that this tweak would not do anything on a multicore cpu running SP2 .exeI would say this is 'straight from the horses mouth' wouldn't you?

LOL, that is not actually what he said. He is not saying the tweak will not work or cannot work because of the coding. He actually says that because the workload has been off loaded from the threads that it would not really be doing much. IE, it is still there having an effect, but this effect has been eclipsed by the benefit of moving workload to other threads. I quote:"[font=-->

[Guest UlfB]

LOL, that is not actually what he said. He is not saying the tweak will not work or cannot work because of the coding. He actually says that because the workload has been off loaded from the threads that it would not really be doing much. IE, it is still there having an effect, but this effect has been eclipsed by the benefit of moving workload to other threads. I quote:"In fact, we moved so many jobs off of the primary thread that there probably isn

[cianpars 1,170]

Well the fact is that I'm using SP1 only and that's maybe why I notice a difference.I've wondered several times about installing SP2 but haven't done so because I've read that it can casue as many problems as it solves both relating to FSX and Tileproxy.I'm really still not sure whether I should be installing it and would be interested to hear anyones views and experiences on the subject. Are the benefits of SP2 really that great?Thanks, IAN

[markturner 0]

Hi Ulf, I take your point. Is there any post SP2 pronouncements from anyone such as Phil or Adam, ( or anyone else who knows) regarding exactly what was done to the code in SP2 to render the tweak inoperative ? All the quoted wisdom on the subject has been from that particular blog and its linked post by Adam. What do you think about my point regarding workload on the primary thread, the effect of the affinity mask tweak ( itself a very contentious point at the moment, see this thread: http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showtop...+hyperthreading ) and the possible results combined with the FFTf value? In my mind there is no doubt it is doing something, I would just like to understand why. By the way Luiz, when i was testing, I was not shutting down FSX each time between flights and I can see your point regarding the cached textures. However since first noticing this 2 days ago, I have started and stopped FSX multiple times, made flights in 4 different areas, including the nevada desert where I snapped these shots: http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showtop...+hyperthreadingAll of my flights using this new .cfg file settings and .ini file settings are showing the same improved loading of textures. just look at the screenshots to see how perfectly the textures are loaded. I did not pause once in the whole 20 minute flight to allow textures to catch up.Cheers, Mark

Well the fact is that I'm using SP1 only and that's maybe why I notice a difference.I've wondered several times about installing SP2 but haven't done so because I've read that it can casue as many problems as it solves both relating to FSX and Tileproxy.I'm really still not sure whether I should be installing it and would be interested to hear anyones views and experiences on the subject. Are the benefits of SP2 really that great?Thanks, IAN

Hi Ian, personally, I not aware of a feature list for SP2, perhaps someone can point us in that direction. i myself have always used SP2, it installs with my accelaration disk, so know no different. i am however not aware of any obvious problems using it.

[Guest UlfB]

Is there any post SP2 pronouncements from anyone such as Phil or Adam, ( or anyone else who knows) regarding exactly what was done to the code in SP2 to render the tweak inoperative ? All the quoted wisdom on the subject has been from that particular blog and its linked post by Adam. ...What do you think about my point regarding workload on the primary thread, the effect of the affinity mask tweak ( itself a very contentious point at the moment, see this thread: http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showtop...+hyperthreading ) and the possible results combined with the FFTf value? In my mind there is no doubt it is doing something, I would just like to understand why.

Mark,Thanks for pointing out that thread! I stand corrected :(There are several intresting post in the thread that you refer to. Hmm...I must say that I'm getting a little confused about this. I'm definitely wrong regarding that the tweak is inoperable in SP2 with multicore computers So, I might be wrong regarding the effect of FFTF on multicore systems with SP2 as well. But it's very odd. I've been testing this with both photo real scenery and FSX GEX/USA scenery and with FFTF set to 0.01 and 0.99 and there is no difference at all on how the textures load, the crispness or how autogen loads. If I set the fftf to a ridiculous fraction of 4.00 the FSX get unflyable. So the settings is definitely operative in FSX SP2, but does it make a difference on multicore systems with normal settings? Not on my system. The best tweak on my system is not to use this tweak. But maybe the use of TileProxy photoreal sceneries makes a difference. I doubt it, but I may be wrong (once more ;-) )There are two very intresting posts in the thread that you refer to: Post #75 and #77

[markturner 0]

Hi Ulf, you are now in the same position I was when I noticed the effect. All my knowledge up to that point was telling me that it should not work, yet ....... This was why i opened the thread, to get more input that might help explain. Try a larger value of FFTF, I noticed improvements when I used values of over 1.I have not tried using the value with normal photoscenery, all my tweaking has been using TileProxy, so I cannot comment on what you are seeing. The other very important point is that all the various variables interact with other and it is very possible to nullify the effect by masking it with different values in another variable. That is why I posted my .cfg file settings and .ini file settings, so people could try exactly my settings. Of course the other massive variable is the fact the everyones PC is different as well.But the important thing is that all of this tweaking and experimenting is uncovering new imformation the whole time about how FSX works and how we can get the best from it.And the other important thing is that it works for me, on my PC, in my set up. Its just i would like to understand what is going on behind the scenes. After all, knowledge is power!!Cheers, Mark

[virtualstuff 759]

There are two very intresting posts in the thread that you refer to: Post #75 and #77

Funny to see this old stuff appear but it's simple it's useless with multicore and SP2because it's moved of the primary thread so almost not a difference related to this option lol...We have also different versions to make it easy lol FSX RTM / FSX SP1/ FSX acceleration (including fixes SP2) /FSX SP2and there are differences between all versions too even Fsx acceleration and FSX SP2...So since you have acceleration with SP2 fixes maybe there is the difference?Cheers,