XP to W7 - Worth The Upgrade?

[Kosta 122]

so who needs the hassle.

The ones that own an IPod/IPhone and want 64bit system. For instance, ITunes can't be installed under XP64. Probably first of the many new applications which will stop supporting XP...I took me 1,5 days to reinstall and configure EVERYTHING. And I really mean everything from scratch. But I do have backups and I also work with that - for instance, FS9 is the same installation as in XP, though all addons have been reinstalled in the new FS9 folder (same as original), then deleted, and then the old folder restored. Works great.IMO, well worth the hassle.

[Cruachan 705]

The ones that own an IPod/IPhone and want 64bit system. For instance, ITunes can't be installed under XP64. Probably first of the many new applications which will stop supporting XP...I took me 1,5 days to reinstall and configure EVERYTHING. And I really mean everything from scratch. But I do have backups and I also work with that - for instance, FS9 is the same installation as in XP, though all addons have been reinstalled in the new FS9 folder (same as original), then deleted, and then the old folder restored. Works great.IMO, well worth the hassle.

Hi Word Not Allowed,With all due respect, I understand why you would now believe this to be the case, having completed this tedious exercise. All I can say is you haven't seen my setup and the thought of going through all that does not fill me with any enthusiasm for the task. Why would I when I have things running exactly how I want it? As to the IPod/IPhone thing, I very much doubt that Apple will abandon support for 32bit XP in a hurry, not unless they are determined to shoot themselves in the foot financially, that is. As I said, Microsoft support for XP continues until 2014; they really have little choice in the matter as they realise that the vast majority of contented users (Joe Public and Business) out there are likely to remain with their current systems for a few more years. For most of us, there really isn't any imperative to change and the certainty of this knowledge means we can relax for another year or two. Regards,MikeBTW, I suspect 64 bit computing is still largely irrelevant for the majority of users across the globe.

[Glynn 405]

HelloI have just spent a couple of days setting up FSX and FS9 on W7 64bit.First I have to say everything loaded into W7 without problem, I am about 30% donewith still a lot of stuff still to go into FS9.But after a number of test flights in both FSX and FS9 I rebooted into my XP32bit installationand re flew those flights, Here on my machine both sims are running smoother on XP.And although well tweaked the XP install is two years old now, I would have hoped that W7 64bitwould have been a lot quicker especially as it has a lot less installed into both sims.I will continue on as time permits getting everything loaded into W7 while doing all my flying in XPHopefully by the time I am through installing everything and getting it comparable to my XP installthe drivers will have matured a bit.If you have a smooth running XP setup I do not think there is much to gain going to W7 at this time, maybe next yearthings may have caught up.

[Kosta 122]

Hi Word Not Allowed,With all due respect, I understand why you would now believe this to be the case, having completed this tedious exercise. All I can say is you haven't seen my setup and the thought of going through all that does not fill me with any enthusiasm for the task. Why would I when I have things running exactly how I want it? As to the IPod/IPhone thing, I very much doubt that Apple will abandon support for 32bit XP in a hurry, not unless they are determined to shoot themselves in the foot financially, that is. As I said, Microsoft support for XP continues until 2014; they really have little choice in the matter as they realise that the vast majority of contented users (Joe Public and Business) out there are likely to remain with their current systems for a few more years. For most of us, there really isn't any imperative to change and the certainty of this knowledge means we can relax for another year or two. Regards,MikeBTW, I suspect 64 bit computing is still largely irrelevant for the majority of users across the globe.

While you are very much right about everything, I think you missed that I was writing about XP 64bit. There is no Itunes for XP64 any more. Or was there ever one??

[Cruachan 705]

While you are very much right about everything, I think you missed that I was writing about XP 64bit. There is no Itunes for XP64 any more. Or was there ever one??

Hi Word Not Allowed,My understanding is that there is currently only an iTunes installer for Vista64 and not XP64. For some reason they skipped XP64. However, my interest still lies with 32bit o/s which, without argument, are still the predominant versions and are likely to remain so for some time to come. If it wasn't for the constraints imposed by FSX coding, would you really need 64bit computing right now for everything else? I have 2GB Crucial Ballistix DDR2 PC2-6400 4-4-4-12(2T) (Dual Channel) system memory and I have never encountered the OOM error. I imagine this is because my FSX installation has been dictated by hardware performance restrictions and I also my tendency to avoid the memory hungry a/c addons. I do accept that your needs/requirements are likely to be different and that you will certainly be running FSX with a much higher spec than mine with most of the bells and whistles turned on. For me FSX is a sim I dip into from time to time and my flying is restricted to areas I'm interested in and/or customized to optimize my visual experience. As for the rest, FS2004 still reigns supreme and there are no performance issues. And that's really my point: I am betting that I am still typical of the majority of current users out there who, after much effort, have achieved stable systems which continue to run all their favourite software without issues.Flight simulation is important to me but it's not the be all and end all. I also have software like, for example, Starry Night Pro, Orbiter, Space Shuttle Mission, X-Plane, Falcon 4.0 Allied Force, Lock On, RealFlight G3.5, Vehicle Simulator, Oblivion, X2/3, Live for Speed, The Half-Life 2 series, various audio/video/music/guitar related packages, and none of them require 64 bit computing to perform extremely well. Then there are the applications and dozens of utilities we all accumulate to help us with our day to day tasks and computer maintenance. Is it any wonder I am reluctant to get sucked into yet another o/s change? It just isn't relevant to me right now. Maybe it all boils down to the fact that I'm done tweaking and fighting for performance. I've finally got things the way I want. My system appears stable and perfectly fast enough for my purposes so what would be the sense in threatening the status quo? Don't misunderstand me, I respect your decision to move on to Windows 7. You have your perfectly valid reasons just as I have for not making that move. However, my contention is that you are likely to be part of an admittedly substantial minority who decide to make that change because your perceived needs are different from the rest of the populations of the world who will be reluctant to rock the boat right now and possibly for the next 2-3 years. This is why I am critical of Microsoft for ignoring the requirements of the huge numbers of current XP users by providing a cast iron upgrade path which protected their current software installations. In this day and age, I'm sure that if the will was there a way would have been found. My suspicion is that they are still smarting from the Vista debacle and resent the fact that most XP users turned their backs on their shiny new but flawed o/s. In the end, we realised that, like Windows 7 we just don't need it right now. XP remains a perfectly good o/s for most purposes. Fully updated to SP3 it works well and is still fast enough for the vast majority. Until support for XP stops, folk like me are quite happy to remain as we are. In a sense, Microsoft has become its own worst enemy. Three good operating systems and all perfectly capable of running well the majority of currently available software titles. How long before we start hearing about Windows 8? If the blinkers remain in place the future will become so confusing for their customers that they will simply turn their backs on new developments and stick with what they have.Sorry to ramble on.Regards,Mike

[Kosta 122]

Yes, you would need 64bit computing for many things past FSX. Some of games will use more than 2GB of virtual space in some conditions (there was one I read about...), thus probably crashing under 32bit. I can personally say that audio engineering side of computing is screaming for 64bits. Many of virtual instruments which load huge samples benefit from it (I remember using NI Colossus on 32bit, being limited by 32bit how much I can load - then switching to 64bit, while it was still new, was unstable, but I could load much much more). 32bit is old news and will very quickly become obsolete IMHO. Apple, who is basing it's computers on 64bit for a long time already, much longer than Windows, is a computing workstation for both graphical design and audio engineering. I wonder why is that.Just to clarify: I am neither using nor have installed FSX. Pure FS9 user with many many addons. Looking and running great :-)I will concur with your statement that for now, XP32 might be enough, FOR MOST PURPOSES. But we have to move forward. Otherwise, like in any other technology, if we stop developing, it's gonna be a beginning of an end.I work in the consumer store which also sells consumer notebooks (Acer, HP, Fujitsu-Siemens, Compaq...) and PCs. I know the troubles people have with Vista. I wish we all stayed with XP32, and skipped that part of Microsoft's life. Until now. I find that the switch to W7 is well OK one, after 8 years of one OS. Remember before, Windows 95 came out in 1995 (with W98 in 1998). How eager were we to switch to XP? Why? Wasn't Windows 95/98 working well??? Windows 2000 was a middle step, but much similar to Vista. There was a 6 year step from 95->XP. 8 years from XP->W7. I find it perfectly reasonable how Microsoft is developing (they even needed more time to develop W7, a big step from XP, much longer than W95->XP), I don't believe they are gonna release or even announce a new Windows version for consumer market in the next 4 years at least. There are gonna be, as usual Server releases, although I think Server version based on W7 is already out - I might be mistaken.Same as it was with Windows 95/98, slowly but surely there will come a time where applications will stop supporting XP. Debating of when, it's pretty useless IMO.On the other side, I was "playing" with W7 lately, and I must say, for the consumer, as a general OS, not for a tweaker (or someone who knows it's ways around OS), it has many advantages - one of them is Media Center, which is so well integrated, that everything in it works. From screen set up, over audio setup, over ease of use.One thing I really respect Microsoft for, they built in many tweaks people were using TweakUI in XP for, and, if you would wish, you can deinstall many W7 features, like Media Center or even Internet Explorer. This time, I believe, Microsoft really heard it's users.

[Cruachan 705]

Hi Word Not Allowed,Again, make no mistake, I have no doubt everything you say is true. I have no wish to see Windows 7 fail; indeed this version appears to be the one we should all be using. Will it happen? In time, yes; but sadly in the short to medium term I think this time around it is highly unlikely for the reasons I have given. This is, of course, only my opinion based on a gut feeling and having heard from others who appear to be thinking along similar lines. We are talking about the PC market here based around Microsoft's Windows Operating System. We know that the gaming market is slowly slipping away from desktop PCs in favour of the burgeoning console market. It is likely that millions of users employ their PCs under XP simply to access all that the Internet has to offer or for occasional word processing and e-mail. Others have spent a considerable amount of time and, yes, expense getting their XP systems to perform in the way they need them to perform. This is the market that Microsoft seems to be ignoring by failing to provide them with a fail-safe and secure upgrade path to Windows 7. Had that been the case I would not be hesitating. Like audio engineering and graphic design we simmers are a niche market and the simple truth is we are relatively unimportant when it comes to generating those big bucks which ensure the ongoing commercial viability of an operating system. On the other hand, what about the vast business community around the globe who will need to question whether they can justify the commitment of huge resources to change to yet another operating system when currently, and for the foreseeable future, XP serves them perfectly well.Windows 7 will sell, but I am predicting that the volume of sales, at least in the short to medium term, will, like Vista, be disappointing simply because there is no real imperative for XP users to change. The future development of graphically intensive gaming software aimed at ever greater realism will be primarily for the console community and PCs will become the poor relation. Anyone visiting a gaming software retailing outlet will be able to confirm that this is already happening. This isn't going to occur overnight but the signs are there now that this trend has started. This is, of course, a great pity, but then we see things differently and, as I said, we are relatively unimportant when it comes to dictating the success of a company like Microsoft. Their recent abandonment of FSX supports this view.Unfortunately for Microsoft this has all come at a time when current systems and those built over the past 2-3 years are already fast enough for most users. Also XP has proved itself to be a very capable, stable and flexible operating system where the enthusiast can exercise a fair amount of creative input towards moulding it to work the way they want. Vista and now Windows 7 impose constraints aimed at protecting the operating system while, at the same time, curbing that creative flair. This may prove to be both necessary and desirable, but I doubt whether the diehard users of XP will see it that way for a while yet.In the end, I could be completely wrong and, of course, no-one wishes to see the arrest of technological advancement. But we are dealing with Joe Public here and Microsoft seemed not to have properly considered the interests of current XP users. Joe Public can often be pretty fickle making the prediction of an outcome extraordinarily difficult. Software houses will continue to support XP as long as there is a sustainable market. This is likely to be the case for a further 2-3 years and may even continue up until 2014 when Microsoft withdraws its support. Hardware is generally pretty reliable these days which also means that the incentive to upgrade is weak and this will hit retailers who are trying to offload new PCs with Windows 7 pre-installed. Many things are different now and I don't think we can compare the present situation with that which existed during the transition from Windows98 to WindowsXP. I must admit I don't know how all this will pan out but, if I am in any way typical of the average PC user, I think Microsoft may have misjudged the market and consequently could be in for a rough ride over the next few years. As always, time will tell one way or t'other.Regards,Mike

[Kosta 122]

You are talking about the regular Joe. The regular Joe will prefer W7 much more than XP - first of all, it's our nature to go forward and to have newest things, second, it offers easier use (even me, a hardcore XP user, first thought why, but then I tried, gave it couple of days, now I can't imagine going back). People want it. Right now, I will just disagree with you on one point: the technological jump from 95/98 to XP is/was pretty much the same as now from XP to W7, at least I see no difference.

[Guest bfindlay]

Well, I am considering this issue as well. I currently am running XP 32 on a boot camp iMac. Going to be getting a newer, faster computer soon, and am considering upgrading to Win 7 so that I can use DX 10 and see if FSX will become useable. Computer specs will be:i7 intel quad core 2.66 native, dynamic upscaling to 3.2gHz depending on need. HD Radeon 4850 w/512M vRAM 8G RAMWill it be worth it to go to Win7 to access DX 10 support for the card? Does XP/Win 7 make use of hyper threading/multi-core architecture? Is it even worth it to upgrade the machine at all?

[Cruachan 705]

Interesting Different Perspective:http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2355057,00.aspHowever, I still feel the consumer market for Windows 7, at least in the short term, will be primarily those purchasing computers for the first time and those enthusiasts who always feel the need to remain at the vanguard of technological developments. Existing XP and/or Vista users may dig their heels in for a while. To me this seems likely, either because there is insufficient incentive and they feel it to be an unnecessary step to be taking at this time or, more likely, because they can't justify the expenditure (cost and effort) right now when everything they have currently installed is running just fine. The numbers involved could potentially be enormous this time around which is why I think Microsoft may have misjudged the public's reaction to this latest release and, in particular, really should have paid more attention to wooing existing XP users.Admittedly I could be wrong and perhaps, in the end, the mystical aura surrounding the release of Windows 7 will be sufficient inducement to entice many of those reluctant recalcitrants to make the change. Who knows?Mike

[JMR 2]

I'm running it with 8 gigs of RAM and FSX appears to run much smoother for me as I assume there's no cache file accessing with the 8 gigs. I understand that in the early days of Windows XP 64 bit and Vista 64 bit there were a lot of driver issues that needed to be sorted out. With my Win 7 64bit install, not once did it ask me for any sort of motherboard or RAID drivers. Nor did it ask for a driver disk for my Creative X-fi soundcard. Quite frankly I was a bit astonished at how smoothly the install went. If you have a .edu email address you can purchase a copy at http://windows7.digitalriver.com They're selling both 32bit and 64bit version for 30 bucks with an optional $13 addition if you want a physical copy of it mailed to you. I initially thought this was going to be an upgrade version of the OS but not once did it ask to see my Win XP disc during the install. My control panel says I have Win 7 64bit Professional installed. LOL go figure.

[kerosene31 349]

An upgrade decision like this comes down to 3 factors:-What new features are important to you (I'm looking into Homegroups to help share files over my network so I don't have to constantly copy/e-mail things to print them, etc)-Are you fixing something that doesn't work well now?-When do you have to upgrade? (April 2014 is the end of support for XP, so you've got some time). For me, I want some of the Win7 functionality, and Vista 64 bit was buggy on my system. The decision to upgrade was simple. However if things are working fine, there's no need to rush out.

[Kosta 122]

An upgrade decision like this comes down to 3 factors:-What new features are important to you (I'm looking into Homegroups to help share files over my network so I don't have to constantly copy/e-mail things to print them, etc)-Are you fixing something that doesn't work well now?-When do you have to upgrade? (April 2014 is the end of support for XP, so you've got some time). For me, I want some of the Win7 functionality, and Vista 64 bit was buggy on my system. The decision to upgrade was simple. However if things are working fine, there's no need to rush out.

1) 64bit with full compatibility to many programs I use (iTunes, Cubase, Wavelab to name some)2) Yep. Above. XP64 didn't either support Cubase. 32bit was giving me OOMs in FS9. Never again. I have "too many" sceneries for 32bits...3) ASAP, as now, everything is working together in ONE OS. I have no wishes to reboot each time I want to do something different.My 2 cents.

[McCrash 3]

WXP x64 to W7 x64 I do believe is worth the move. Especially if you have been on WXP for quite some time. W7 has better memory management and the hyper-threading work better too.