Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Hornit

Visibility layer

Recommended Posts

Recently reinstalled FS9 on my rig here. When I set restricted vis, say 20-30 miles, Im getting an issue I remember from before. If your sitting on the ground there is a clear area with obvioulsy unrestricted vis up to about 150-200' where the haze seems to get "normal". I can see that underneath the vis layer its clear and there is a definite demarcation on surrounding trees and terrain up to that line/height. After that level the haze looks normalmeaning it is present. Screenie attached.Anyone know a fix to this??? I seem to remember something but its been a LONG time since a re-install.Thanks!Hornit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

Hello,I have the same prob ... Seem's it's pandemic .. and nobody find yet a vaccine worry.gifRegards.bye.gifgus.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Seem's it's pandemic .. and nobody find yet a vaccine worry.gifRegards.bye.gifgus.
LMAO :( RJ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Im kind of surprised, I thought I remember a pretty easy fix, its just that Ive tweaked this sim over the years so much I just dont remember what it was!!!:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From memory I believe it relates to the fact that the sim doesn't account for AGL properly - if I remember rightly it is solved by going into advanced weather settings, visibility, and manually amending the lower altitude of the visibility to ground level.Hope that works for you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No vaccine? Perhaps 'NO POSTING' would be the 'cure' (along with the $100 fine). Funny Boys.The 'fix' is simple. Either raise the BASE elevation to 6,000 ft (will also NOT show this 'line' along low hills). But you WILL still have that 'fog' bank visible in the distance (I think that is like real visibility, and I like it, but it's my own preference). Or, lower the base to '0' ft. Wala. No more line.I have experimented with the 'visibility' layer in (almost) all day sessions (in FSX too) and find there are different ways to 'do things' with it. I find it is not 'right' to have the BASE elevation at 100 ft due to that 'line' showing. I find that by starting on the ground and using SLEW to climb thru the layer I can SEE what settings I use will do without having to take time to do take off and fly thru these layers. Saves time.While you're at it, also ck the Cirrus layer range. Set the base to 6,500 ft and the top to 25,000 ft (so when you fly above that elevation your visibility will be unlimited) and then set to 2/3 and 'Few'. You will be surprised at how nicer that Cirrus layer looks. Also don't have 2 layers of Cirrus. And if you have Cumulus, along with the Cirrus, put that layer between 6,500 ft and 12,000 ft and move the Cirrus base up to 12,500 ft. Tricks of the trade.Chuck BNapamule

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello,

Or, lower the base to '0' ft. Wala. No more line
Sorry .. but that don't work for me.I must see a other doctor .. lol ...Will post screenies with settings and results ..This is the meteo of my default flight3ypog.jpg15otmqg.jpgo6jhcn.jpgAnd the result !30jpvth.jpgMaybe it's already a 2012 effect ? 2870d97f.gifBTW .. thank's
While you're at it, also ck the Cirrus layer range. Set the base to 6,500 ft and the top to 25,000 ft (so when you fly above that elevation your visibility will be unlimited) and then set to 2/3 and 'Few'. You will be surprised at how nicer that Cirrus layer looks. Also don't have 2 layers of Cirrus. And if you have Cumulus, along with the Cirrus, put that layer between 6,500 ft and 12,000 ft and move the Cirrus base up to 12,500 ft. Tricks of the trade.
Regards.bye.gifGus.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Go find the Bluesphere textures.... use their cirrus_overcast03 bitmap. Goes in your main FS texture folder. It reduces the effect SIGNIFICANTLY. Its still there but its almost not noticeable, plus it makes valley fog and clouds around mountaintops look much better.Just do a search for Bluesphere in one of the popular library sites. Im not quite sure if this was what I used before, but it is a HUGE improvement over the default.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello,Indeed .. with this file ... it's less noticeable.Thank you beer.gifaouf0k.jpgRegards.bye.gifGus.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another advantage of the Bluesphere addon is that it eliminates the mobile haze layer that follows your a/c. You can choose a haze layer to suite conditions such as pollution! Vololiberista

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Screenie not showing....
I can't duplicate your low, clear visibility band whether at sea level or in the mountains. The haze goes right to the ground.Everything appears normal to my eyes.Screenshot shows 10 mile vis for clarity in this much size-reduced shot.My system is pretty ancient with GeForce FX5200 cards- is this problem perhaps associated with newer cards? Alex Reid

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

MY card is not that new, its Gforce 9800GTX+ I know it MAY be a driver issue. I had zero problems with this card before and I DID not have an issue with the vis layer either.In the sim I have it set to ZERO on the settings page. What happened to me was a boot sector HD problem. Reinstalled windows etc etc and had an issue where the card would not take new drivers other than the ones from the install disk. Aftera lot of research i found many others had the same problem. I ended up resolving that, but reluctant to try more drivers at this stage as the card is now working so well and it did take the driversI was using before my hardware issues. SO bottom line I think it might be a driver issue and can live with this ALMOST fixed situation.If I do anything with drivers and resolve it I will post again with what worked here. I use Nhancer and will try tweaking some of those settings relating to alpha and transparency stuff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello,january ... can you post a external view of the plane in the same situation like in your inside view.BTW I don't think it's a related driver issue or old GPU issue.Actually I use a old card (some will comment as very old!! 26253307.gif )GTI 4600 Nvidia running drivers (Xtreme G) 71.** serieRegards.bye.gifGus.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hello,january ... can you post a external view of the plane in the same situation like in your inside view.BTW I don't think it's a related driver issue or old GPU issue.Actually I use a old card (some will comment as very old!! 26253307.gif )GTI 4600 Nvidia running drivers (Xtreme G) 71.** serieRegards.bye.gifGus.
Gus- how is this? Same plane, same location- just different angles, taking advantage of the three monitors. Visibility still 10 miles.These screenies lose a lot of pizazz, reduced from their actual 45" width to fit a single monitor width for AVSIM.Regards Alex ReidDreamFleet Bonanza at Lillooet BC- CAR3. FS9 set for 10 mile visib. (6 yr old AMD 1.8GHz, 2GB Ram, 2 GeForce FX5200 GPUs)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Like I said, it takes experimenting to get it (haze, fog, etc) to LOOK the way you want. But, that '10 mile' visibility will LOOK DIFFERENT depending if you are INSIDE THAT 'VISIBILITY' LAYER, ABOVE THAT LAYER, OR BELOW THAT LAYER. The LAYER is made up of the BASE elevation on thru the TOPS elevation. You can't have 1/4 visibility at the threshold when your LAYER is from 3,000 ft to 19,000 ft (unless the airport elevation is 3,500 ft !!!).So do go all the way to end of menus in user defined/advance weather until you get to end where you can see the 'cloud layer' tab, and go look in the visibility tab. Combinations include the cloud type, overcast, etc AND the layer RANGE. Then when combined with visibility RANGE you will get the overall LOOK to the weather. They are interelated. You CAN have rain without clouds, but it's not 'right' or real. You can dial in 10 mile visibility but then you have to figure out what you want to 'see' when on ground, flying 3,000 ft, and flying above 30,000 ft. FOR EXAMPLE: You can make a visibility layer up to 80,000 ft and when you fly at 30,000 ft you will be INSIDE that vis layer. If you have 10 miles it will look like 10 mile vis looks at ground level (ie: foggy, etc).Then if you have 1/4 mi visibility (even if flying at 30,000 ft) your will find your visibility will be limited to 1/4 mile. Why? Because you are INSIDE the 'visibility' LAYER. Lower the TOP (elevation) of visibility LAYER to 28,000 ft and flying at 30,000 ft iwill not be 'affected' (ie: visibility will be unlimited).So if you raise your visibility layer to 5,000 ft you will not see that demarcathion line (ie: not due to older video card). You can still have clouds (thunderstorms) down to 0 elevation but your visibility will not be affected until you get up to 5,000 ft. At ground level you can see for 100 miles (not real) while it thunderstorms (boomers) like crazy. Lower your visibility to ground level and you can't see the clouds but the rain and booming will still be evident. I have a lot of fun 'dialing in' all sort of combinations for all sort of cloud LAYERS. Ever try to have Cumulus when the range is 5,000 to 6,000 ft. You get FLAT clouds. But if you make the LAYER from 5,000 to 12,000 ft you will get BIG, PUFFY clouds. So layer range is important, as is BASE and TOP of those layers. Yes you can have several layers of different CLOUD TYPES at different LAYER ranges. Combinations are endless. Have fun.Chuck BNapamule

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Like I said, it takes experimenting to get it (haze, fog, etc) to LOOK the way you want. But, that '10 mile' visibility will LOOK DIFFERENT depending if you are INSIDE THAT 'VISIBILITY' LAYER, ABOVE THAT LAYER, OR BELOW THAT LAYER. The LAYER is made up of the BASE elevation on thru the TOPS elevation. You can't have 1/4 visibility at the threshold when your LAYER is from 3,000 ft to 19,000 ft (unless the airport elevation is 3,500 ft !!!).So do go all the way to end of menus in user defined/advance weather until you get to end where you can see the 'cloud layer' tab, and go look in the visibility tab. Combinations include the cloud type, overcast, etc AND the layer RANGE. Then when combined with visibility RANGE you will get the overall LOOK to the weather. They are interelated. You CAN have rain without clouds, but it's not 'right' or real. You can dial in 10 mile visibility but then you have to figure out what you want to 'see' when on ground, flying 3,000 ft, and flying above 30,000 ft. FOR EXAMPLE: You can make a visibility layer up to 80,000 ft and when you fly at 30,000 ft you will be INSIDE that vis layer. If you have 10 miles it will look like 10 mile vis looks at ground level (ie: foggy, etc).Then if you have 1/4 mi visibility (even if flying at 30,000 ft) your will find your visibility will be limited to 1/4 mile. Why? Because you are INSIDE the 'visibility' LAYER. Lower the TOP (elevation) of visibility LAYER to 28,000 ft and flying at 30,000 ft iwill not be 'affected' (ie: visibility will be unlimited).So if you raise your visibility layer to 5,000 ft you will not see that demarcathion line (ie: not due to older video card). You can still have clouds (thunderstorms) down to 0 elevation but your visibility will not be affected until you get up to 5,000 ft. At ground level you can see for 100 miles (not real) while it thunderstorms (boomers) like crazy. Lower your visibility to ground level and you can't see the clouds but the rain and booming will still be evident. I have a lot of fun 'dialing in' all sort of combinations for all sort of cloud LAYERS. Ever try to have Cumulus when the range is 5,000 to 6,000 ft. You get FLAT clouds. But if you make the LAYER from 5,000 to 12,000 ft you will get BIG, PUFFY clouds. So layer range is important, as is BASE and TOP of those layers. Yes you can have several layers of different CLOUD TYPES at different LAYER ranges. Combinations are endless. Have fun.Chuck BNapamule
Chuck- OP didn't indicate he was setting layers- only that when he set Visib. Distance to 20 miles, the haze effect ended with a sharp demarcation line, with "unrestricted vis up to about 150-200" at the ground.So forgetting layer settings, I would assume a Visibility reduction should apply to what the pilot is seeing- otherwise how could you set lousy vis at ground level?Alex Reid

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, do it again. You set CLOUD layers (1 or more) and/or VISIBILITY layers (1 or more). I only point out that the BASE elevation is important, as it's where the 'layer' starts (cloud or visibility). You put the two in the same 'layer' and you get a different 'look' then if you put each of them on different elevation (ie: layer elevations (plural, as both cloud and visibility have BASE (elevation) and TOPS (elevation) that make up the LAYER. BASE is IMPORTANT.I point out that the base elevation is where the 'layer' starts. Set VISIBILITY BASE to 200 ft and you WILL see that demarcation line (the actual BASE of the layer). Set BASE elevation to 5,000 ft (or to '0 ft') and you shouldn't see that demarcation line. BUT, IF YOU HAVE OVERCAST DOWN TO 0 FT ELEVATION YOU WILL 'COVER UP' (ie: you won't see) THAT DEMARCATION LINE DUE TO CLOUDS COVER. So cloud 'layer' and IT'S base elevation DOES effect what you 'SEE'. BUT (BUTT, CIGERETTE BUTT) THEN: WHAT YOU 'SEE' ALL depends on whether you are flying (or parked on ground) UNDER, INSIDE, or OVER the visibility LAYER. For example if you are at an airport with 9,800 ft Elev the cloud layers and the visibility layers could be UNDER you (unless you change the layer(s) elevation(s). So, you would be OVER, not UNDER, and not INSIDE, the clould or visibility layer(s). You drop off your skiers at 9,000 ft, in 'clear & calm' weather, and when you descend to 'base camp' (or airport) below, you could be in 1/4 mile 'visibility' soup (fog) at 5,000 ft (set by using BOTH cloud AND visibility settings). You can't have 1/4 visibility without using a cloud layer to 'cause' the reduction in visibility. Haze and 1/4 mi visibility are 2 different animals. Got it?So it's NOT the setting to '20 miles' that produces the demarcation line (or the video card, or it's drivers) but the visibility's BASE elevation. Set it to 0 ft or 5K ft. Done.Chuck BNapamule

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ok, do it again. You set CLOUD layers (1 or more) and/or VISIBILITY layers (1 or more). I only point out that the BASE elevation is important, as it's where the 'layer' starts (cloud or visibility). You put the two in the same 'layer' and you get a different 'look' then if you put each of them on different elevation (ie: layer elevations (plural, as both cloud and visibility have BASE (elevation) and TOPS (elevation) that make up the LAYER. BASE is IMPORTANT.I point out that the base elevation is where the 'layer' starts. Set VISIBILITY BASE to 200 ft and you WILL see that demarcation line (the actual BASE of the layer). Set BASE elevation to 5,000 ft (or to '0 ft') and you shouldn't see that demarcation line. BUT, IF YOU HAVE OVERCAST DOWN TO 0 FT ELEVATION YOU WILL 'COVER UP' (ie: you won't see) THAT DEMARCATION LINE DUE TO CLOUDS COVER. So cloud 'layer' and IT'S base elevation DOES effect what you 'SEE'. BUT (BUTT, CIGERETTE BUTT) THEN: WHAT YOU 'SEE' ALL depends on whether you are flying (or parked on ground) UNDER, INSIDE, or OVER the visibility LAYER. For example if you are at an airport with 9,800 ft Elev the cloud layers and the visibility layers could be UNDER you (unless you change the layer(s) elevation(s). So, you would be OVER, not UNDER, and not INSIDE, the clould or visibility layer(s). You drop off your skiers at 9,000 ft, in 'clear & calm' weather, and when you descend to 'base camp' (or airport) below, you could be in 1/4 mile 'visibility' soup (fog) at 5,000 ft (set by using BOTH cloud AND visibility settings). You can't have 1/4 visibility without using a cloud layer to 'cause' the reduction in visibility. Haze and 1/4 mi visibility are 2 different animals. Got it?So it's NOT the setting to '20 miles' that produces the demarcation line (or the video card, or it's drivers) but the visibility's BASE elevation. Set it to 0 ft or 5K ft. Done.Chuck BNapamule
Chuck- I've always had my Visibility Base set to zero. Never occurred to me that anyone would bother to set it otherwise. I think of visibility solely in terms of runway visibility (RVR-Runway Visible Range) regardless of what airport/elev I happen to be at. Thanks for posting a solution to the original poster's question. And for suggesting a new wrinkle in setting up interesting IFR flights!Alex Reid

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You guys really need to READ what is posted. If I set the visibility to 20 miles with OR WITHOUT clouds at ANY elevation I see that demarcation line just above me..at about 100-150' AGL. Does not matter how many times i set it with or without FSUIPC its still the same.I have ALWAYS set the vis to 0 AGL when i want limited visibility in the sim. Its basically fixed by this Bluesphere cirrus bitmap but you still see an occasional very subtle flash when you descend through the layer which is around 150' or so but SHOULD be on the ground. This is new since reinstalling the sim and I knew I had the problem before like I believe everyone else does. Its just one of those "sim" things, Folks learn to live with it or figure out a fix. I'm basically satisfied with this fix, but it is still technically "broken. I cant make that vis layer demarcation line go away unless I set it up high, and then its just not very realistic IMHO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You guys really need to READ what is posted. If I set the visibility to 20 miles with OR WITHOUT clouds at ANY elevation I see that demarcation line just above me..at about 100-150' AGL. Does not matter how many times i set it with or without FSUIPC its still the same.I have ALWAYS set the vis to 0 AGL when i want limited visibility in the sim. Its basically fixed by this Bluesphere cirrus bitmap but you still see an occasional very subtle flash when you descend through the layer which is around 150' or so but SHOULD be on the ground. This is new since reinstalling the sim and I knew I had the problem before like I believe everyone else does. Its just one of those "sim" things, Folks learn to live with it or figure out a fix. I'm basically satisfied with this fix, but it is still technically "broken. I cant make that vis layer demarcation line go away unless I set it up high, and then its just not very realistic IMHO.
Hornit- I simply can't replicate your problem when I set Advanced Weather/Visibility/Base(MSL) to zero. This is the little box on the lower right side of the Advanced Weather/Visib. popup. This is NOT the blue vertical scale on the left side.The narrow demarcation band of clear visib. above the runway in your pic, just doesn't appear for me when that box is set to zero. It does appear if the box is set to an altitude higher than the runway. ie the reduced visib. stops at the alt. set in that box.Sorry I can't help.Alex Reid

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alex, That IS exactly what Ive been doing, not sure why mine wont read that number correctly. No biggy. Appreciate all the effort.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

January,You are using visibility to cover your runway by setting VISIBILITY to '0' elevation? The visibility is WEATHER related, and NOT for 'when' you see the runway on approach (like that 'RVR' (?) you refer to). VISIBILITY is a VERTICAL component which when combined with CLOUDS (ie: WEATHER) you can control the visibility when INSIDE that visibility layer. (If you are under that layer you will see a demarcation line).Sure, the runway will be less visibile if vis is set to 20 miles and 0 elevation. But if you put 'overcast' CLOUD LAYER down to '0' elevation you will see what ( real) WEATHER effect looks like, especially if you reduce VISIBILITY (must match cloud layer base & tops elevation) to 1/4 mile. So you insisting that visibility base be a '0' elevation and not 5,000 ft just prevents OP from getting rid of that demarcation layer. It COULD be he has a layer from 0 ft to 120 ft with unlimited visibility, and another layer from 120 ft on up, with 20 mile visibility, above that layer. Adjusting the top layer all day will not get rid of the lower layer's effect (ie: demarcation line). (Did he ever say he LOOKED?)So bottom line is that it's a case of not REALLY having enough info in that he did not say how many layers he has, etc. Guess? Not workable. I quit.Chuck BNapamule

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
January,You are using visibility to cover your runway by setting VISIBILITY to '0' elevation? The visibility is WEATHER related, and NOT for 'when' you see the runway on approach (like that 'RVR' (?) you refer to). VISIBILITY is a VERTICAL component which when combined with CLOUDS (ie: WEATHER) you can control the visibility when INSIDE that visibility layer. (If you are under that layer you will see a demarcation line).Chuck BNapamule
Hi Chuck- I normally use VISIBILITY to create fog down to ground level- typically 1/2 or 3/4 mile - to set up a quickie IFR flight. In the DreamFleet Baron,Take off, Kill an engine just after lift off, Maintain control and FLY the bird, Feather the prop & shut down, Clean up the airplane, then Navigate a circuit in the soup, back to departure runway for an instrument approach and try to get down in one piece!You can work up a good sweat doing this and the whole flight lasts only 10 or 15 minutes! Only one problem- when you make it down OK you get cocky and start to assume you could do it in the real thing! NOT LIKELY!Regards Alex ReidBaron 58 Port engine out- moments after liftoff from CYYJ R09. (Watch out for Mt. Tuam on Salt Spring Island & don't let 'em see you sweat!)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, I do that too, and I agree that setting visibility BASE to 0 ft, and 1/4 to 1/2 mi vis (with no clouds necessary) when you want to be 'socked in' (fog).So how do we get rid of the demarcation line for Alex? Maybe a couple of pics will help him with the 'concept' concerning the BASE (elev) for visibility layer.Chuck BNapamule

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites