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ErnieAlston

Is the GREED or what ...?

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For very specific reasons I will not mention any names but it has been quite a while now that I wanted to write about something that has become very common and we all have accepted it (it seems) with the greatest of ease:The new threat within the flightsim community is not piracy or illegal (mis)use of programs and addons but GREED! Most of us pay an arm and a leg (and for some even a lung and a ######) to keep our hobby i.e. obsession up to date. Just when we get a breather then the new flightsim will appear on the table and it will be time to upgrade the very old and unusable 18 month old PC and there goes the other lung and ###### as well

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...or is the GREED you're talking about coming from the people who expect others to work tirelessly on a project for free? Discuss.

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I cant't refrain myself from reposting a good ol' article of Mathijs Kok !Was it 3 years ago or what ?It is very contemporary.Kyprianos Biris :-cool[link:avsim.com/greece/hvacc]Hellenic vACC]http://vateud.org/images/vatsim-eurs.gifTHE CASE OF THE STREETLIGHT SIMULATOR When the first computer became available for home use an American programmer wrote the first streetlight simulation program. He called it Streetlight Simulator 2 because it made it look more mature than Streetlight Simulator 1. It was an instant success and they became quiet rich and famous for writing this program. This was to be expected because switching streetlights on and off is every child

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No, I don't have to accept it. I can choose with my $$$. You see, FS04 and even FS02 were/are pretty good right out of the box. Any enhancement I feel I need is my personal choice. If it's free and works well, great. If not, to the waste bin it goes. If someone wants to charge me, well I'll see. Do I really need it that bad? Does it work well? Is it free to try out first? If it's yes then I may purchase it, if not I'll fly without it. Developers can do what they want as well. It either sells or it doesn't.JimActiveSky Support

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Absolutely NOT ... in the past when I still had time I made quite a few scenery and panels and stuff for FS - it took my hours and days and weeks. It was given to the flightsim world for free because that is my contribution to my hobby. Like OPENSKY with their wonderful planes; like the guys who did Norway scenery; like the panel from Bill Grabowski; like so many others ...... do I want everything for free?Absolutely NOT!But I think there are boundaries overstepped here. Just a feeling in my water I guess.

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I have to agree that it is the people that are greedy. These people spend countless hours on what you call a little gauge. Don't buy it then. You people that are complaining about having to pay for programs, aircraft, etc. You have just been spoiled. We all have! If you all remember when tirsh? or whoever and some other people were stealing other peoples work, and charging for it after they modified a file....this is what spoiled it for the rest of us that appreciated the peoples work. It took a few scumbags to ruin it for the rest of us. Now we are stuck having to pay for peoples work and time. These same people that are charging for their work, probably feel like they are getting slapped in the face by a few people stealing their work. I could go on, but I think that you get the point. Last thing, I find it pretty funny that people are complaining that they have to pay for a program to get their other programs to work(which is not true, but some seem to think so). Ever stop to think that your add on would not have been possible without the other? Think that they would have even put out the product? Get a grip people. Buy what you want, go with out if you do not want to pay for peoples hard work..... next go to work tomorrow and tell your boss that you will work for free 2 days a week. You expect a paycheck for your work at place of employment!Keith

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Point taken Keith and as a matter of fact, I already do countless hours a week for FREE. In my job I get paid a lot of money by the hour and yet I give back a good number of hours back, for free for nothing because I can and want to.Back to FS - I'm not so much pointing fingers at new programs because like other posts suggest: I can choose if I want to buy it or not - I'm talking about paying for something and then it is absolutely crab dulax and they never bother to patch it, never bother to answer your e-mail because the money is in the bank!I'm talking about new versions that come out that did not take hours and hours to update and I've already paid for the version and now they want money for the upgrade cum patch cum new version again.I'm talking about a lot of developers out there, that are exploiting us with the amount of money that they ask for something that use to be free and a enormous contribution to the flightsim world.And I'm NOT talking about FSUIPC here - I think you know exactly who they are! For FSUIPC I'm more than willing to pay, I just find it sad that it is in it's third generation, and Microsoft could yet not offer Pete a substantial amount for this little gem and make it part of FS2004 because as you know Keith that is one little UTIL we can not do without.

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Forgive me if what im about to say may seem a bit over the top or stupid.But i would liken the recent changes of FS Freeware projects to Payware projects to "Drug Taking" not that i have ever divuldged is such activites.You see, once i was at this party and a dude pretending to be my freind offered me some pills for free ......... i was like first are they safe, then secound was how much are they?No man......... he replied try em,..... its my treatI refused naturally but later i thought what if i had accepted these freebies and enjoyed them, i might have been hooked and then found myself stuggling to get some cash to buy some more (Because theres no way the secound lot are gonna be free!!!)What a mistake that would have been, just to fullfill my selfish craving (Then in the future maybe even resulting into stopping my sons birthday presents because daddy buisness is going down the pan and i dont have much mony these days kind of thing .......i i need a fix manNo way!!!! I love my son and no punk MF is gonna make him suffer a cruel and selfish upbringing. Over my dead body Alright Calm down Calm down!!!!!!!!Sorry got a bit carried away thereAC2002 Free Completely Hooked AC2004 15 dollars Daddy I want Starwrs for my Birthday ....hmm there could be a problem there Peter have you seen this new flightsim addon? they say its really good what do you thinkWhat do you think?What do you think?What do you think?

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Payware add ons compared to drug taking."Over the top" indeed.

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I also believe some designers are taking advantage of simmers. When I read posts I am amazed at how many payware add-ons some simmers buy. I could afford them but I control myself. I only buy one or two add-ons for a sim, after reading many reviews, forums and look at the designers history.It seems to me that many simmers are emotional and almost addicted to add-ons. There is a long list of add-ons out there that I would like to have, but I control myself. Publishers and desingners know that and take advantage of it... it's human nature... who should we blame? Buying has become so easy with internet and the credit card. You can have that new plane or utility installed on your computer within minutes without getting up or having any money going through your hands... that can be dangerous. It also drives the prices up.My suggestion to all simmers is this: never buy payware right away, think it over for a few days and the desire to acquire this plane or that panel may seem stupid after a few days. You might even think "I don't even need it" When all simmers stop buying anything, designers will have to offer good quality products that are woth the money.I used FS98 for many years and only bought a few add-ons. For FS2000 I only bought 767PIC... For FS2k2 I used 767PIC and bought a few more add-ons (with regret later-on). I didn't need more. Now with FS2004 I will probably buy 1 or 2 add-ons. I have my eyes on the PMDG 737 but I'm waiting... I'll see what PSS and Flight1 have to offer and choose ONE, not all of them.The simming community is a reflection of our society, "I NEED it all, I need it now".For me a payware or commercial product should be better than anything freeware. For exemple I will not buy a plane without a very good panel. I would not buy a panel that doesn't have a realistic FMS (if the modelled plane has one in real life). For exemple, why would I buy a ERJ plane (without panel) when there is a very good freeware plane and panel available? It amazes me to think that some people bought it! The freeware ERJ panel doesn't have a FMS but that's ok because it's free. The payware plane might look better but the freeware plane is free! Thanks to the designers they decided to share their work with us! The only ERJ I would buy would be a complete package including nice plane, realistic panel and FMS. I hear some people say it would be more expensive, but I would rather pay 50$ for one good package then 60$ on 4 bad paywares. Look at 767 PIC, it was expensive but worth it, I used it intensively for over two years!I'm not like many simmers that have hundreds of planes and panels, I usually have two or tree only, the best ones I could find.Scenery is the same. If it doesn't have everything important (to me) I won't buy.I guess the questions everyone should ask when they buy add-ons, a new car, a house or anything else are: "Do I really need it$" and it is worth the money they ask for?"I don't like to see people compare payware designers to any of us going to work. Many of them do this as a hobby and have a job. When I help my neightbor, give to the poor or spend time helping someone I don't ask for money, I do it because I'm a human being sharing with others. When did simmers stop simming for fun and started simming for money?Thanks to all the freeware designers out there that gave me hours of enjoyment and to the GOOD quality payware designers to witch I bought an add-on.Just me opinion... spend smartly and be happy!Danny

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Oops!I also wanted to name some of the great people that still do it (simming) for fun and spend hours creating freeware products to share with us.AFG YS-11 is my favorite panel/paware package (payware quality), DHC-7 team, Tom Gibson's team, project ERJ, project F100, Espen

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Next time I buy an addon, I'll have to insist that it come in a TIN BOX. Otherwise, I just may have to pass. }(

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I usually don't getinvolved with this type of post. I once bought(5 years ago) a CD that had about 150 planes on it, I think I actually found it in EBX computer store. I took it home and found out it was the same planes I had already downloaded for free on this site along with other sites. I had to laugh and ask myself, I'm really caught up in this hobby(which I have no problem with). YES! and we all are, if we weren't so hooked and excited there wouldn't be the forums, the anticipation, expectation, pc upgrades...think about it, a NEW COMPUTER FOR A FLIGHT SIM! Gimmie a break(I've been guilty of this) We never upgrade for quake, unreal tourney, splinter cell, sim city 4000, age of impires. but we will for MSFS, FLY, FU3. all which I own. We (me included heavely) are our worst enemy. Hers another twist of how powerfull our flight sim hobby is, there are alot of anti microsoft gamers. The big reason people don't like microsoft is beacause companies get bought by them, are the make an existing product better by the fact that they have mnoney, and we call it unfair competition. However not one simmer would have a problem doing there practices in the simming community. Buying out companies like PSS(which I own)active sky, FS NAV Mega scenery. No No, that's ok we say, and we would applaud it We don't care about those delevopers as long as our expectationns are met in this $54 sim. I register my products I buy from flight sim developers( PSS, active sky, etc.), and understand that any other freeware IS A GIFT!!, It never last forever, I didn't buy the sim for the freeware, I don't by hardware for the sim. We are a ficked group, I love you all, but we gotta look at how we have justified so many things for our simming hobby, and how our demands get worse. If you go to the forums of "The Sim", "Age of Impires", "Sim City", etc, there is no group for dedicated to a hobby as Fligh Simmers. But there is also no other program quite as advanced as this product. I have loads of freeware and payware that might not make it to this flight sim and thats ok, if the programs that were once free, now payware, the good news is FS2004 is not so dependednt as before on the other addin programs to make it more enjoyable, I haven't even had a chance to try my PSS 777 or 747, but I like my active Sky program with the free upgrade to FS2004, If there is a fee to upgrade my PSS777/747 I'll more than be glade to pay it. If was once free and its now payware and I like it(because I'm a hobbiest...I'LL BUY IT...PERIOD!!). We're grown men and some kids , lets make responsible decisions..

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Why is it that SO many freeware authors are SUDDENLY going payware for FS2004?! I've been discussing this with other flight simmers, and they agree! I consulted a group of NON-flight simmers, and they think you are ALL being screwed over.I always assumed that people created things for a hobby because they wanted it for THEMSELVES, rather than wanting to make money out of it! It's no longer a hobby when you are trying to EXPLOIT others in the hobby - it's a greed-driven business!The amount of people who will throw money at something that's normally freeware ... incredible! You are being HAD! Your addons are WORTHLESS after a few years ... I quote a FAMOUS gauge creator: STOP THE COMMERCIAL POLLUTION OF THIS HOBBY!

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Why is it that SO many freeware authors are SUDDENLY going payware for FS2004?! I've been discussing this with other flight simmers, and they agree! I consulted a group of NON-flight simmers, and they think you are ALL being screwed over.I always assumed that people created things for a hobby because they wanted it for THEMSELVES, rather than wanting to make money out of it! It's no longer a hobby when you are trying to EXPLOIT others in the hobby - it's a greed-driven business!The amount of people who will throw money at something that's normally freeware ... incredible! You are being HAD! Your addons are WORTHLESS after a few years ... I quote a FAMOUS gauge creator: STOP THE COMMERCIAL POLLUTION OF THIS HOBBY!

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Let's all face it... it's only greed if it's something we want (although the drug analogy above was not that far off, as addiction does play into it heavily).

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Oh yeah .... the "add-on" that has taken the market hostage recently .... you've been had AGAIN! It's been timed to perfection ... and the author is going to make more money than the addon developers! Thousands will buy it, and this is rapidly becoming a lucrative market to SCREW some gullibles :-lolMystery aircraft and panel authors appear, and release freeware for a LITTLE WHILE ... they use you as beta testers, and then go payware ... you're being had again and again! :-lol

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Hey Brother I agree with your observation!!!Good thing I still control my wallet and credit card...AC2004... 15 Bucks for a fly by.... I don't think so.Pls don't beat me up for wanting it for free. I got enough share and payware to have an opinion on the subject.

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Oh, so you guys don't want clever addons like AC and FSUIPC at all, freeware or payware?

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Personally, I have NO problem paying for good quality add-ons.I also don't have a problem with freeware groups switching ot payware if they feel the need and/or desire too. It's thier projects, they can do whatever they want, I'm not obligated to buy any of them. If I decide to then it was my choice.If somebody wants to go payware I say more power to them.I admit I have seem some payware that I believe should be freeware but ultimately it isn't my choice so I choose just to ignore those products.

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the payware isn't the new fashion, its the old fashion. The idea of getting some software without haveing to pay is the new fashion. Before the internet, no one would imagine it possible to get an addon for free. We paid for everything, the idea that we could get something for nothing never crossed our minds.Since the internet came to be, some of us began to feel good about sharing our knowledge and the tools started to be distributed for free, and the results started to be distributed for free, and in that way we all taught each other lots...ok, that was cool...and guess what? Way back when, when I was first learning the ropes, I had to pay for a graphics based design program for scenery (ASD). My mentor at the time was one of the best freeware designers around, Justin Tyme. I saw that products for money still had a role, even in this "new world".Justin decided to go payware (fsgenesis) somewhere around the fs2000 era, can't remember for sure. His loss to us freeware guys was felt, but we carried on. My creations for fs98 remind me of much of the new freeware designers just starting out today, much of my work now is received as Justin's was during fs98. (oh, and by the way, now graphical design tools have become FREE...LOL)Nothing new happening today...you're just feeling disappointed to have some changes happening in who you got used to enjoying as freeware top dogs. Can you recognize I felt that way years ago when Justin went payware.Its all a continuom....always new folks starting, always folks reaching the point that their offering is justly payware, always fans of the freeware being disappointed. No big deal here, we're all human and we struggle with change.But remember, no one owes you squat, if you get any freeware, you're way ahead of where simmers were during fs3.0Also, consider if you have raised your standards too high for new freeware authors to get your notice. Is that fair...is it even reasonable for folks to declare "freeware is doomed...etc.." when the fact is the libraries bulge with new offerings each day? Is it possible that all you need to do to stop your fears and worries is to alter your perspective and open your mind to different freeware?Best,Bob Bernstein

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And when people complain about every Jill and Jack going payware the tiresome standard response from certain people is:You don't have to pay if you don't want it, so you expect people to work for free, blaaa, blaaa, blaaaaaaaaa, blaaaaaaaa.Look at Linux and Kde, Gnome, MySQL, X, Linux Kernel, MOzilla, etc. etc. I could go on for ever. Every one of these softwares are more complicated and have taken more man hours and resources than any of the FS addons. They are ALL FREE and GPL. Some people who code them get paid for it, most people don't. They do it because they like to code, believe in FREE opensource software, and because they fix bugs in software they use themselves.We are imho taken advantage to a certain degree. The people making certain addons do not believe in free or opensource software. The all mighty dollar is taking over. Some people say there is nothing wrong with that, I say there is nothing wrong with that, BUT it shows what kind of people they really are. If you don't want to continue developing something for free, how about you release the source code and let other people continue it instead of charging for it.We need a little more of that 60's hippy magic. Not everything has to be about time value of money, money, getting paid for your time, money, money and finally money.

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