Good day folks, Ever since I earned the privilege to pilot an aircraft a few years ago, I've been toying with the idea of owning my very own aluminum set of wings (as I'm sure most pilots do after they gain their hard earned certification). However, like most people, I've been weighing the pros and cons of making such a significant investment that will undoubtedly result in a drastic change with regards to personal budgetary issues, etc. Lately, however, I've come to the realization (esp since a few friends and family have passed on), that, since we all only go around once in this life, you might as well make it as enjoyable as possible, even if it means indulging in what most people believe to be a very expensive passion a.k.a. flying. To this end, I've decided to finally make my longstanding dream come true and become an aircraft owner. The decision is one that I've pondered long and hard, and, after much research with regards to my typical missions, I've narrowed the choice down to either a Piper Archer II (circa late 70's, early 80's) or a C172 R (circa late 90's). The majority of time in my logbook is actually Skyhawk time, however, I'm tending to lean more towards the Archer for a variety of reasons, namely extra speed, increased payload, just to name a few. The only downside to the Archer that I can envision right now (based on the years that I'm looking at) is the fact that the engines are carburated and not fuel-injected (carburetor ice is a very common issue in my climate, esp during the humid summer months). I plan to fly between 10 to 20 hours a month, probably more during the summer months. I know that this sounds very low in terms of usage, and most people would recommend that it's much more economical to rent with that planned usage, but unfortunately, rental aircraft are not available where I live, so that's pretty much out of the question. To this end, I'm inviting opinions, recommendations with regards to both of the aircraft that I've mentioned, and any helpful suggestions as I pursue this very important decision. I'm an AOPA member, so I've checked out some stuff on their forums from time to time with regards to ownership and maintenance quirks. Any additional info would be very welcomed, though. Looking forward to any and all comments. Thanks in advance.J.C.(MYNN)PPL ASEL, AMEL Instrument Airplane

I don't have any recommendations as I'm in no position to give them, but I just wanted to say Ive shared the same passion as you since I was 14. I'm 21 now and looking to start my lessons as soon as I graduate school. My dream is to some day own my own plane as well, and as you have, have been reading many forums and articles weighing the pros and cons. The only thing I've come up with is, dont try to rationalize it from a financial point of view, just do it! I hope you have much success once you actually end up taking the plunge, and do come back and share your experience!

I'll spare you the conclusion I came to (it takes 30 hours of flying per month to financially justify aircraft owership), because you already know that.. lol.. Plus, ownership has it's own payback in terms beyond money... plus you don't have access to rental aircraft. For me, the decision not to buy crystalized when I realized that I wouldn't ENJOY flying 30 hours per moth (at the time I was flying for hire, too).. and that between the payments (or having the money tied up), insurance, hangar rent.. it would have cost me $600/month just to stand next to it and say "lookee at what I own"... before even turning the prop.As for choice..if you're gonna take the plunge.. I'd only point out considering something a little more utile than a C172/PA28. Like maybe a Skylane, or a Comanche. Four people, and overnite bags in a C172 will leave you enough fuel to stay in the pattern :( When it comes to actual type ? I'm partial to low-wing airplanes. The upper-hand goes to Cessna types, in that they have two doors.. that's about it. Low wing airplanes (to me) are .. well.. more like airplanes :(

I'll spare you the conclusion I came to (it takes 30 hours of flying per month to financially justify aircraft owership), because you already know that.. lol.. Plus, ownership has it's own payback in terms beyond money... plus you don't have access to rental aircraft. For me, the decision not to buy crystalized when I realized that I wouldn't ENJOY flying 30 hours per moth (at the time I was flying for hire, too).. and that between the payments (or having the money tied up), insurance, hangar rent.. it would have cost me $600/month just to stand next to it and say "lookee at what I own"... before even turning the prop.As for choice..if you're gonna take the plunge.. I'd only point out considering something a little more utile than a C172/PA28. Like maybe a Skylane, or a Comanche. Four people, and overnite bags in a C172 will leave you enough fuel to stay in the pattern :( When it comes to actual type ? I'm partial to low-wing airplanes. The upper-hand goes to Cessna types, in that they have two doors.. that's about it. Low wing airplanes (to me) are .. well.. more like airplanes :(

Hi, Thanks for your responses. I was actually considering a Skylane. However, I think the insurance guys might give me a bit of a hard time considering my relatively low total flight time (around 200). I might consider upgrading later on down the road. The Archer is a bit better in the payload dept than the Skyhawk, albeit not by much, but payload is not really gonna be too much of an issue for me since at most, I'll only have one passenger most times (my son), and we're not gonna be toting too much luggage, etc. As far as costs go, I'm a little blessed in that I'm mortgage free (pretty much debt free for that matter), and enjoy a mid 5 figure income salary (in addition to rental property income). Therefore, I think now's as good as any time, esp since it's pretty much a buyer's market. Thanks again.J.C.

Hi, Thanks for your responses. I was actually considering a Skylane. However, I think the insurance guys might give me a bit of a hard time considering my relatively low total flight time (around 200). I might consider upgrading later on down the road. The Archer is a bit better in the payload dept than the Skyhawk, albeit not by much, but payload is not really gonna be too much of an issue for me since at most, I'll only have one passenger most times (my son), and we're not gonna be toting too much luggage, etc. As far as costs go, I'm a little blessed in that I'm mortgage free (pretty much debt free for that matter), and enjoy a mid 5 figure income salary (in addition to rental property income). Therefore, I think now's as good as any time, esp since it's pretty much a buyer's market. Thanks again.J.C.

It's amazing the difference in insurance premiums when you tack the words "high performance" or "complex"(understandable) on there.Congrats, though! That's quite a plunge to take, and I'm glad you have the level of interest or "sickness" :( to take it! Ya know how I know there's money in aviation? You and I are putting it there... :(

Good day folks,Ever since I earned the privilege to pilot an aircraft a few years ago, I've been toying with the idea of owning my very own aluminum set of wings (as I'm sure most pilots do after they gain their hard earned certification).However, like most people, I've been weighing the pros and cons of making such a significant investment that will undoubtedly result in a drastic change with regards to personal budgetary issues, etc. Lately, however, I've come to the realization (esp since a few friends and family have passed on), that, since we all only go around once in this life, you might as well make it as enjoyable as possible, even if it means indulging in what most people believe to be a very expensive passion a.k.a. flying.To this end, I've decided to finally make my longstanding dream come true and become an aircraft owner. The decision is one that I've pondered long and hard, and, after much research with regards to my typical missions, I've narrowed the choice down to either a Piper Archer II (circa late 70's, early 80's) or a C172 R (circa late 90's).The majority of time in my logbook is actually Skyhawk time, however, I'm tending to lean more towards the Archer for a variety of reasons, namely extra speed, increased payload, just to name a few. The only downside to the Archer that I can envision right now (based on the years that I'm looking at) is the fact that the engines are carburated and not fuel-injected (carburetor ice is a very common issue in my climate, esp during the humid summer months). I plan to fly between 10 to 20 hours a month, probably more during the summer months. I know that this sounds very low in terms of usage, and most people would recommend that it's much more economical to rent with that planned usage, but unfortunately, rental aircraft are not available where I live, so that's pretty much out of the question. To this end, I'm inviting opinions, recommendations with regards to both of the aircraft that I've mentioned, and any helpful suggestions as I pursue this very important decision. I'm an AOPA member, so I've checked out some stuff on their forums from time to time with regards to ownership and maintenance quirks. Any additional info would be very welcomed, though.Looking forward to any and all comments. Thanks in advance.J.C.(MYNN)PPL ASEL, AMEL Instrument Airplane

I have owned two aircraft over the past 17 years-the first a Beech Debonair which I owned for 11 years-and now a Baron in which I share a partnership with two others for the past 6.I have always kept records in Quicken for all my expenses and the cost of both aircraft have cost me around 9 grand a year average over 17 years. I averaged 50-75 hours a year in both of them and fly just as much if not double in other aircraft (safety pilot for others, Wings of Mercy flights etc.).Oddly, Quicken also tells me that the cost of operating my cars which are two year old used and not particularly expensive is not that far off in cost from the aircraft-when you factor in as you do an aircraft-cost of loans, maintenance, insurance, licenses, fuel etc. Most people don't amoritize a car by taking all costs into account like you do an aircraft-but a car is just about as bad as an aircraft-adding up all the numbers is pretty scary.Of course the car will be worth almost nothing when I am done with it. My Debonair after using it for 11 years sold for 16 grand more than I had bought it. With the Baron and the way things are now-I would lose some-but unlike a runout car that is worth nothing the aircraft's are worth something significant when you are done with them.Now the plane brings me infinitely more pleasure and experience than the cars do. I can't put a price tag on what it brings..!It is also amazing how you can cut corners in other areas of life (I only buy two year previously leased cars instead of new for instance) which leaves more capital for what brings joy in life.I really enjoyed owning my own plane for 11 years, but I have to say I enjoy my partnership more. Not only have I made great friends with my partners and their wives/family-but have shared great trips together, and it makes the responsibility of maintaining an airplane much easier. It also allowed me to step into a much more expensive and capable aircraft for the same cost, and never once has scheduling the plane been a problem-even when I have taken it for a month at a time. It is also easier to meet the hours you mention when 3 people are using the plane vs. sole ownership.

For the hours you are planning, I'd consider going for a share in an aircraft with a few others if you can manage it, it'll probably work out better doing that. If you can't find a group with a share going spare, then why not find some like-minded pilots in your area and start one up? You could probably afford a more modern variant of your preferred aircraft if you did that too. If there is a flying club local to you, a notice up on their boards or forums or whatever will doubtless do the trick.Al

Geofa makes a good point... in that cars are like the tires you'd put on them. You buy them, use them up, and get rid of them. Airplanes are more akin to an investment, like a house. So long as you maintain them, they hold their value (to a point).Because of this, and the rules involved.. you're almost forced to carefully account for aircraft use.. right down to the per-hour cost. We (a club where I'm part owner of a lease-back Warrior), just put an engine in an airplane. Now of course you can, go past TBO in a private airplane, whereas a rental airplane HAS to get a re-man engine at TBO... but that gets you into questioning if you can afford ownership. It's all kinda like buying a yacht.. If you have to ask how much it costs, you probably can't afford it.. :( ANYway.. current price for an installed, O-320 is $22,000.00 :( With a 2000hour TBO, that's $11/hour. And it's a fair assumption that over that same 2000hours you'll spend at least that much on: annual-inspections, instruments, radios, tires, breakage.. ect. (we just put a DG in that same airplane.. $1,500.00)... 100LL is about $5/gal ... at 8gph that's that's another $40 ... throw in $5/hour side expenses and we're at .. $67/hour Hangar/tie-down, and insurance are fixed costs.. and obviously go down per-hour, the more hours you fly. Insurance on something like a $70,000 C172, and a hangar to park it in, will be in the $400/month range.What was I getting at ? LOL .. Oh yeah.. cost-per-mile (comparing it to a car). I flew a regualr route years ago, and drove it often, too. Without boring you with a lot of formulas.. and adjusting for inflation.. an automobile costs me $0.40/mile .... A C172 (being operated at 25hours/month) would cost about $1.10/mile. So considering the fun/satisfaction/time-saved (ignoring weather hassles..lol), airplanes aren't all that expensive.To illustrate that point.. I use this scenario. I'm in Columbus, Ohio right now. Pretend you and a friend needed to get to Chicago on short notice. that would end up being 6 hours of prop time in a C172 (round-trip). Even at a rental rate of $120/hour .. it's $720..... $360 per person, round-trip, short-notice, aint all bad :( The C172 even wins the time arena. By the time you drive to the BIG airport (early enough to clear security).. sit waiting to board... the C172 will be 1/2-way there ! And as the airline passsenger is reaching cruise-altitude.. the C172 guy will be climbing into his rental car, at Dupage County Airport (with all his luggage) B)

Geofa makes a good point... in that cars are like the tires you'd put on them. You buy them, use them up, and get rid of them. Airplanes are more akin to an investment, like a house. So long as you maintain them, they hold their value (to a point).Because of this, and the rules involved.. you're almost forced to carefully account for aircraft use.. right down to the per-hour cost. We (a club where I'm part owner of a lease-back Warrior), just put an engine in an airplane. Now of course you can, go past TBO in a private airplane, whereas a rental airplane HAS to get a re-man engine at TBO... but that gets you into questioning if you can afford ownership. It's all kinda like buying a yacht.. If you have to ask how much it costs, you probably can't afford it.. :( ANYway.. current price for an installed, O-320 is $22,000.00 :( With a 2000hour TBO, that's $11/hour. And it's a fair assumption that over that same 2000hours you'll spend at least that much on: annual-inspections, instruments, radios, tires, breakage.. ect. (we just put a DG in that same airplane.. $1,500.00)... 100LL is about $5/gal ... at 8gph that's that's another $40 ... throw in $5/hour side expenses and we're at .. $67/hour Hangar/tie-down, and insurance are fixed costs.. and obviously go down per-hour, the more hours you fly. Insurance on something like a $70,000 C172, and a hangar to park it in, will be in the $400/month range.What was I getting at ? LOL .. Oh yeah.. cost-per-mile (comparing it to a car). I flew a regualr route years ago, and drove it often, too. Without boring you with a lot of formulas.. and adjusting for inflation.. an automobile costs me $0.40/mile .... A C172 (being operated at 25hours/month) would cost about $1.10/mile. So considering the fun/satisfaction/time-saved (ignoring weather hassles..lol), airplanes aren't all that expensive.To illustrate that point.. I use this scenario. I'm in Columbus, Ohio right now. Pretend you and a friend needed to get to Chicago on short notice. that would end up being 6 hours of prop time in a C172 (round-trip). Even at a rental rate of $120/hour .. it's $720..... $360 per person, round-trip, short-notice, aint all bad :( The C172 even wins the time arena. By the time you drive to the BIG airport (early enough to clear security).. sit waiting to board... the C172 will be 1/2-way there ! And as the airline passsenger is reaching cruise-altitude.. the C172 guy will be climbing into his rental car, at Dupage County Airport (with all his luggage) B)

Good afternoon guys, Thanks for all the responses (all very detailed and thought provoking). Unfortunately, finding a partner to share costs is extremely difficult where I live (believe me, I've tried). I'm actually in the process of trying to determine the annual expenses involved (i.e. fixed costs, fuel, etc) so that I can have a fair idea of the hole that will be left in the wallet, lol. However, I'm pretty determined to see this through once I'm done with my research, because, other than MSFS, I've done very little flying over the last 2 years or so, and as all pilots can attest, you yearn for the skies once you've tasted flight. It's akin to an addiction :) I'm very grateful for all the responses though, keep em coming.Thanks again.J.C.